GLYN (with official solemnity). "The Parliament hath sent us for that end, to give your Highness satisfaction."

LORD COMMISSIONER FIENNES,-Nathaniel Fiennes, alias Fines, alias Fenys, as he was once called when condemned to be shot for surrendering Bristol; second son of Old Subtlety' Say and Sele; and now again a busy man, and Lord Keeper,-opens his broad jaw, and short snub-face full of hard sagacity,* to say: 'Looking upon the Order, I find that we may offer your Highness our reasons, if your Highness's dissatisfaction be to the alteration of the Government, whether in general or in particular."-So that his Highness may have it his own way, after all? Let us hope the preliminary flourishing is now near complete! His Highness would like well to have it his own way.

THE LORD PROTECTOR. I am very ready to say, I have no dissatisfaction that it hath pleased the Parliament to find out a way, though it be of alteration, for bringing these Nations into a good Settlement. Perhaps you may have judged the Settlement we hitherto had was not so favorable to the great end of Government, the Liberty and Good of the Nations, and the preservation of all honest Interests that have been engaged in this Cause. I say I have no objection to the general 'fact,' That the Parliament hath thought fit to take consideration of a new Settlement or Government. But you having done it in such way, and rendered me so far an interested party in it by making such an Overture to me [As this of the Kingship, which modesty forbids me to mention],-1 shall be very glad to learn,' if you please to let me know it, besides the pleasure of the Parliament, somewhat of the reason they had for interest ing me in this thing, by such an Overture.

Truly I think I shall, as to the other particulars, have less to object. I shall be very ready to specify objections, in order to clear for you whatsoever it may be better to clear; 'in order' at least to help myself to wards a clearer understanding of these things;-for better advantage 'to us all,' for that, I know, is in your hearts as well as mine. Though I cannot presume that I have anything to offer calculated to convince you; yet, if you will take it in good part, I shall offer somewhat to every particular.

'And now,' if you please,-As to the first of the things [Kingship], I am clear as to the ground of the thing, being so put to me as it hath

Good Portrait of him in Lord Nugent's Memorials of Hampden.

been put.* And I think that some of the reasons which moved the Parliament to do it, would, if they were now stated to me,' lead us into such objections or doubts as I may have to offer; and would be a very great help to me in that. And if you will have me offer this or that or the other doubt which may rise methodically, I shall do it.

Whereupon LORD WHITLOCKE, Summoning into his glassy coalblack eyes and ponderous countenance what animation is possible, lifts up his learned voice, and speaks several pages ;†-which we abridge almost to nothing. In fact, the learned pleadings of these illustrious Official Persons, which once were of boundless importance, are now literally shrunk to zero for us; it is only his Highness's reply to them that is still something, and that not very much. Whitlocke intimates,

"That perhaps the former Instrument of Government having originated in the way it did, the Parliament considered it would be no worse for sanctioning by the Supreme Authority; such was their reason for taking it up. ‹ Their intentions I suppose were,' -this and that, at some length. As for the new Title, that of Protector was not known to the Lord; that of King is, and has been for many hundreds of years. If we keep the title of Protector, as I heard some argue, our Instrument has only its own footing to rest upon; but with that of King' it will ground itself in all the ancient foundations of the Laws of England,'" &c., &c.

MASTER OF THE ROLLS,-old Sly-face Lenthall, once Speaker of the Long Parliament; the same whom Harrison helped out of his Chair, him also the reader will conceive speaking for the space of half an hour:

"May it please your Highness,' Hum-m-m! Drum-m-m! Upon due consideration you shall find that the whole body of the Law is carried upon this wheel' of the Chief Magistrate being called King. Hum-m-m! [Monotonous humming for ten minutes.] 'The title of Protector is not limited by any rule of Law at understand;' the title of King is. Hum-m-m! King James wanted to change his Title, and that only from King of England to King of Great Britain; and the Parliament could

In our last Conference, 8 April, now happily lost.
Somers, vi., 355

not consent, so jealous were they of new titles, bringing new unknown powers. Much depends upon a title! The Long Parliament once thought of changing its Title to Representative of the People; but durst not. Hum-m—m ! • Nolumus Leges Angliæ mutari.' Drum-m-m! 'Vox populi: it is the voice of the Three Nations that offers your Highness this Title." Drum-m --m !" Such, in abbreviated shape, is the substance of Lenthall's Speech for us. At the ending of it a pause.

*

THE LORD PROTECTOR. I cannot deny but the things that have been spoken have been spoken with a great deal of weight. And it is not fit for me to ask any of you if you have a mind to speak farther of this. But if such had been your pleasure, truly then I think it would have put me into a way of more preparedness, according to the method and way I had conceived for myself, to return some answer. And if it had not been to you a trouble-Surely the business requires, from any man in the world in any case, and much more from me, that there be given to it serious and true answers! I mean such answers as are not feigned in my own thoughts; but such wherein I express the truth and honesty of my heart. [Seems a tautology, and almost an impertinence, and ground of suspicion, your Highness;—but has perhaps a kind of meaning struggling half-developed in it. Many answers which call and even THINK themselves "true" are but "feigned in one's own thoughts" after all; from that to "the truth and honesty of heart" is still a great way;—witness many men in most times; witness almost all men in such times as ours.) That is what I mean by true answers.

I did hope that when I had heard you, so far as it might be your pleasure to speak on this head, I should then, having taken some short note of it as I do [Glancing at his Note-paper], have been in a condition, this afternoon [Would still fain be off!],—if it had not been a trouble to you, -to return my answer, upon a little advisement with myself. But see. ing you have not thought it convenient to proceed that way,—truly 1 think I may very well say, I shall need to have a little thought about the thing before returning answer to it: lest our Debate should end on my part with a very vain discourse, and with lightness; as it is very like to do. [A Drama COMPOSING itself as it gets ACTED, this ; very different from the blank-verse Dramas.]

I say therefore, if you had found good to proceed farther in speaking of these things, I should have made my own short animadversions on the

whole, this afternoon, and have made some short reply. And this would nave ushered me in not only to give the best answer I could, but to make my own objections 'too.' [An interrogative look: evidently some of us must speak! Glyn steps forward.]

LORD CHIEF-JUSTICE GLYN steps forward, speaks largely; then SIR CHARLES WOLSELEY steps forward; and NATHANIEL FIENNES steps forward; and LORD BROGHIL (Earl of Orrery that is to be) steps forward; and all speak largely whom, not to treat with the indignity poor Lenthall got from us, we shall abridge down to absolute nothing. Good speaking too; but without interest for us. In fact it is but repetition, under new forms, of the old considerations offered by heavy Bulstrode and the Master of the Rolls. The only idea of the slightest novelty is this brought forward by Lord Broghil in the rear of all:*

LORD BROGHIL. "By an Act already existing (the 11th of Henry VII.), all persons that obey a 'King de facto' are to be held guiltless; not so if they serve a Protector de facto. Think of this. And then in the 7th and last place,' I observe: The Imperial Crown of this country and the Pretended King are indeed divorced ;-nevertheless persons divorced may come together again; but if the person divorced be married to another, there is no chance left of that !"

Having listened attentively to perhaps some three hours of this, his Highness, giving up the present afternoon as now hopeless, makes brief answer.

THE LORD PROTECTOR. I have very little to say to you at this time. I confess I shall never be willing to deny or defer those things that come from the Parliament to the Supreme Magistrate [He accepts then?}, if they come in the bare and naked authority of such an Assembly as is known by that name, and is the representative of so many people as a Parliament of England, Scotland and Ireland is. I say this ought to have its weight; and it hath so, and ever will have with me.

In all things a man is free to grant desires coming from Parliament. I may say, inasmuch as the Parliament hath condescended so far as to do me this honor (a very great one added to the rest) of giving me the

privilege of counsel from so many members of theirs, so able, so intelligent of the grounds of things-[Sentence breaks down]-This is, I say, a very singular honor and favor to me; and I wish I may do, and I hope I shall do, what becomes an honest man in giving an answer to these things, according to such insight* either as I have, or as God shall give me, or as I may be helped into by reasoning with you. But indeed I did not in vain allege conscience in the first answer I gave you. [Well!] For I must say, I should be a person very unworthy of such favor if I should prevaricate in saying things did stick upon my conscience. Which I must still say they do! Only, I must also' say, I am in the best way I could be 'in' for information; and I shall gladly receive it.

Here have been divers things spoken by you to-day, with a great deal of judgment and ability and knowledge. I think the arguments and reasonings that have been used were upon these three heads:† First, Speaking to the thing simply, to the abstract notion of the Title, and to the positive reasons upon which it stands. Then 'secondly, Speaking'` comparatively of it, and of the foundation of it: in order to show the goodness of it comparatively, 'in comparison with our present title and foundation.' It is alleged to be so much better than what we now have ; and that it will do the work which this other fails in. And thirdly, Some things have been said by way of precaution; which are not arguments from the thing itself, but are considerations drawn from the temper of the English People, what will gratify them, and so on;'-which is surely considerable. As also some things were said' by way of anticipation of me in my answer; speaking to some objections which others have made against this proposal. These are things, in themselves each of them considerable. [The "objections?" or the "Three heads" in general? Uncertain; nay it is perhaps uncertain to Oliver himself! He mainly means the objections, but the other also is hovering in his head, —as is sometimes the way with him.]

To answer objections, I know, is a very weighty business; and to make objections is very easy; and that will fall to my part. And I am sure I shall make them to men who know somewhat how to answer them, 'to whom they are not strange,' having already in part been suggested to them by the Debates already had.

But upon the whole matter, I having as well as I could taken those things [Looking at his Notes] that have been spoken,-which truly are to be acknowledged as very learnedly spoken,-I hope you will give me a

* Desire' in orig.: but there is no sense in that. †' accounts' in orig.