TWENTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. COMMONS. NEW WRIT ISSUED. TUESDAY, MAY 13, 1879. For Limerick City, v. Isaac Butt, esquire, deceased. NEW MEMBERS SWORN. FRIDAY, MAY 9. Canterbury-Robert Peter Lawrie, esquire. MONDAY, JUNE 9. Clare County-The O'Gorman Mahon. Limerick City-Daniel FitzGerald Gabbett, esquire. HANSARD'S PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, SIXTH SESSION OF THE IN THE TWENTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND, HER MAJESTY QUEEN VICTORIA. YEAR OF FOURTH VOLUME OF THE SESSION. HOUSE OF LORDS, Friday, 9th May, 1879. * MINUTES.]-PUBLIC BILLS-First Reading mission of exploration to Thibet and thence to India, and the appointment of a Commission to regulate the differences between the Colony of Hong Kong and the City of Canton? There are many questions of much importance comprised in the Chefoo Convention; but I shall only call your Lordships' attention to those points that are indicated in my Question. The Convention was agreed to two years ago. The first point to which I shall refer are the clauses regulating the importation of opium into China. These clauses, I may explain, provide that the opium should be put into bond, and that when taken out for the purposes of sale it should be subject to a certain tax called the li-kin; the exact conditions of which were to be the subject of agreement. The tax was originally a war tax, imposed in consequence of the Taeping rebellion; but, like our own Income Tax in England, has since been maintained as an ordinary source of Revenue. Before any final settlement had been arrived at, Sir Thomas Wade, our Minister in China, who had come to this country, was sent to India, which country the question mainly affected, in B a order to confer with the Indian autho- | gitimate manner with the trade of Canton. rities as to what the exact terms of the The result, of course, has been a great Convention should be. Sir Thomas deal of inconvenience, and sometimes Wade, I understand, has now returned that inconvenience has reached the point to China, and probably he is not only of actual mischief and risk. Power was in possession of the opinions of the therefore taken under the Convention to Indian authorities, but has opened com- appoint a small Commission, composed munications with the Chinese Govern- of persons fully conversant with the dement. I shall be glad to know from tails of the question, which, on the one the noble Viscount the Secretary of State hand, should endeavour to secure for India how the matter stands. With reasonable amount of freedom for the regard to the second point in my Ques- Hong Kong traders, and, on the other tion, which relates to a distinct article hand, should so regulate matters as to preof the Convention, your Lordships will, vent illegitimate mischief being done to no doubt, remember the case of Mr. the Revenue of Canton. The grievances Margary. It was desired to open up a are very strong on each side, and, no trade route through Burmah to China, doubt, something must be given and and an expedition under Colonel taken by each party. I wish to know Browne, I think-which was sent from whether the Commission has been apIndia through Burmah with that object, pointed, whether anything has been successfully prosecuted its mission up to done in connection with it, and, if so, the borders of China. There it was what? met by Mr. Margary, Interpreter to the LORD HAMMOND regretted that the Mission at Shanghai. Mr. Margary ratification of the Convention should was murdered on the Frontier, and the have been so long delayed on our partexpedition came to nothing. Negotia- the more so, as British commerce was altions, however, were subsequently en- ready in the enjoyment of benefits which tered into, and powers were taken in this the Convention was intended to secure; Convention to open up a trade route, while the advantages to which the not through Burmah to China, but Chinese considered themselves entitled through China to Thibet-an undertak- had, so far, been steadily withheld. He ing which is interesting, not only in a could not but think that our future commercial, but also in a scientific and relations with China might very much geographical point of view. We have depend upon the manner in which the Consular Agents posted at no great terms of the Convention were treated by distance from the Thibet Frontier; and Her Majesty's Government. He was one of our Agents, I understand, made well aware that the date at which China an expedition last year towards the should come into the enjoyment of those Thibet Frontier. I shall be glad to know advantages was subject to an understandfrom my noble Friend whether he has ing between Her Hajesty's Government received the Report of that expedition, and other Powers; but that understandand, if so, whether he will lay it upon the ing did not seem yet to have been arrived Table; also, whether the Article of the at; and until the Chinese obtained the Convention relating to this subject has advantages which were held out to them been carried into effect in any way?-namely, facilities for the suppression Both as regards the opium question and of smuggling-he thought they might the Thibet expedition, large trade in- fairly demand that the British should terests are involved; and these interests, withdraw from the ports which had been so long as the Convention remains un- opened to British commerce. The Indian ratified, or is not carried into effect, opium trade with China would not, he necessarily remain more or less in sus- believed, be prejudiced by the ratificapense. I come now to the last point in tion of the Convention; and he would my Question-that relating to the dis- remind those to whom that fact might be putes which have arisen between the a subject of regret that the exclusion of Colony of Hong Kong and the City of Indian opium from China would not, Canton. For some time past the Hong owing to the extended cultivation of Kong traders have been accused of sys- the native poppy, prevent the Chinese tematically violating the laws of China; from smoking opium. It was to be and, on the other hand, Chinese cruisers hoped that the questions respecting prehave been accused of interfering in an ille-vention of smuggling between Hong The Earl of Carnarvon Kong and China would be arranged in | tive trade is being carried on, and, no a manner satisfactory at once to the doubt, it brings a considerable revenue Colony of Hong Kong and to the Chi- to the Chinese Treasury. The proposal nese Government. As regarded the open- of the noble Lord-more Chinese in his ing up of intercourse between China views of trade than the Chinese themand India through Thibet, it was most selves-is, that we should close up the desirable, before we attempted to send avenues of this trade and dry up these another mission of exploration, that we sources of revenue, and then tell the should be sure there was no risk of the Chinese we are compensating them for repetition of the disaster which had the non-settlement of the question of occurred in attempting to open inter-li-kin for opium. I think they would course between China and India through Burmah. LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY said, that two years ago he had been asked by those who were interested in the China trade to put the first of the Questions now put to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs; but he had to postpone it as the Government had not then come to any decision. The Chinese Government had fulfilled their part of the Treaty, and quite recently an English traveller had journeyed unmolested from Shanghai to Burmah. It was putting Sir Thomas Wade in an unfair position to send him back to Pekin with the Chefoo Convention unratified by us. repudiate their advocate. This is not a question of hypothesis. By the Convention, the Chinese are only bound to open these ports on the performance of the stipulations with respect to li-kin. They have not waited for the stipulations; they have opened them at once. Do you imagine they have done it out of pure benevolence? Certainly not; for they know it is for their interest as well as ours that the trade between the two countries should be unrestricted. The difficulty which arises under the clause of the Convention is a very simple one. In the first place, the proposal with respect to li-kin on goods in general is that it should be levied on all goods THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: It going into China except within a very is perfectly true that, owing to certain limited area which is called "the Condefects in the structure of this Conven- cessions ;" and to that limitation some tion, it has not been hitherto possible to foreign Governments take strong objecratify it; and we are awaiting the Re- tion. Therefore, it is provided that port from Sir Thomas Wade of his com- the stipulations shall not come into munications with the Chinese Govern- operation until an understanding has ment before we can proceed further in been arrived at with them. They have that direction. I am wholly unable to not yet accepted these stipulations of agree with the noble Lord the late the Convention, and, therefore, it is Under Secretary (Lord Hammond) in clearly impossible they should come thinking that we have done thereby any into operation. That is a matter over injury to the Chinese, or that we ought which we have not any control. The to compensate them for that injury in li-kin is not the ordinary taxation of the manner the noble Lord suggests. He the country; it is a species of octroi pointed out that the Chinese, by virtue levied at the boundary of every Proof this Convention, have opened to us a vince; it is levied very much at the discertain number of ports. That stipula-cretion of the provincial Governors; tion, he says, has been performed; but the stipulation with respect to submitting opium to li-kin has not been performed. We ought, therefore, in honour, he says, to give back to the Chinese that which they have given to us, by withdrawing from those ports which they have opened. My impression is that if the Chinese could be asked they would be ill-satisfied with the demands of their advocate. Certain ports have been opened to British trade-not an injurious thing to the nation in which those ports are situated. I believe a tolerably ac they can raise it or lower it as they please; but there is always this security for the foreign trader-that, as long as the collection of the duty is left in the hands of Chinese officials, smuggling, when the duty becomes high, is not a very difficult matter, and, therefore, there is a natural check upon these provincial Governors which prevents them raising li-kin to an extravagant amount. With respect to opium, this Convention proposes what undoubtedly would be a very drastic remedy-that the collection should be placed in the same hands as that |