was the view which he believed was taken made by any subject, or any subjects, of of it by 99 persons out of every 100 that nation. He denied that even a popu throughout the country at large. They lar tumult, a riot at Naples for instance, in did not care which was right or which was which French subjects were injured, gave wrong, the Greek Government or the Eng- any title whatever to France to demand lish Government. They did not enter into satisfaction from the Government of Naples. the claims of Mr. Finlay, a most able, He denied that mere injury to the property most learned, and most respectable man; or even to the person of an individual reor of M. Pacifico, of whom he had never siding voluntarily in a foreign country, gave heard it predicated that he was most able, any right to the Government of which the except in taking care of his own interest, injured individual was a subject, to demand or most learned, except in the art of mak- redress. A claim to compensation never ing accounts, or most respectable in any could be made against the Government point of view whatever. Nobody cared of a foreign State for injury to property, about the merits of these claims, or who unless such Government had been a party was right or who was wrong. But this to the injury. It was frightful to think they said, that, as it was commonly ob- to what an extent dissensions might be served he must be a person fitter for Beth-created, and wars might be waged, if lehem Hospital than any other part of the world who would go into the Court of Chancery for a sum so little as 100l., how much more fitted for Bethlehem would they be who would rush into the Court of Chancery for a thing not worth one farthing? For the whole of this matter in dispute-except as a question of abstract right-which was to involve England, Russia, France, and the half of Europe in war, was absolutely the most insignificant he had ever heard of as a cause of quarrel between any two nations of which history made any mention. He thought that their Lordships would do well, in the present state of European affairs, would act wisely for their own credit, and justly towards their own characters and the character of their public policy, if they rescued themselves by a vote of that House from being supposed to be parties to those negotiations to these proceedings rather-for no principle was involved which entitled them to be designated negotiations. He admitted that, however trifling the right might be, every country was perfectly justified in asserting that right. No nation was to be required to submit to be wronged; no nation was to be called upon to submit to be insulted. Her rights were to be carefully guarded by the powers of the Government, even though the infraction of those rights might be of comparatively trivial importance. But we must be very sure that we had right on our side; and we must be very careful how we interfered to assert and maintain that right. He entirely dissented from the law of nations as it had been laid down by some noble Lords. He utterly denied that any nation had a right to go to war with any other nation, or to resort to the ultimate remedy with any other nation, merely to enforce a claim such a principle were admitted. They had been told that a Government had a right to interfere if any wrong was done to one of its subjects residing in a foreign State, the Government of which State had not the will or the power to prevent such injury. But, if that principle was admitted, the United States of America would be surrounded by wars just as they were surrounded by neighbours, for each creditor of a repudiating State might claim the aid of his own Government. He utterly denied that an outrage committed by a few persons, not connected with the Government, gave the right to claim compensation. Then there was another matterthe mode and manner of applying for compensation where compensation was due. They might have a very good right to call for explanation from a foreign Power-to say, "We protest against such an act; we hold you answerable for it; we call upon you to clear and defend your conduct, and to give compensation;" but it was a very different thing to say, "We have a right to reprisal," for the exercise of that right could only be justified when the Government had been an accomplice, and a wilful accomplice, in the wrong. He hoped that, for the sake of the interests of this country, their Lordships would, through the medium of their decision to-night, shake themselves loose from all responsibility for the late conduct of the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. He said this with the greatest respect for his noble Friend and former Colleague (Lord Palmerston). He (Lord Brougham) knew that his noble Friend had been assailed elsewhere, and especially abroad, in a manner utterly inconsistent with all justice; and with facts within his (Lord Brougham's) own knowledge respecting the noble Lord's constant Canning Midleton Bangor BISHOPS. Chichester Oxford BARONS. and deliberate opinions, and his strong VISCOUNTS. On Question, their Lordships divided:- List of the CONTENTS. Colchester Delamere DUKES. Newcastle Montrose Marlborough Ailesbury MARQUESS. EARLS. Buckinghamshire Courtoun Proxies. Poulett VISCOUNTS. Beresford Doneraile Melville Strathallan Hawarden BISHOPS. Howard de Walden Langdale Londesborough Wodehouse Proxies. Radnor VISCOUNTS. Bolingbroke BISHOPS. Peterborough BARONS. Abercromby Auckland Carew Cloncurry Denman Dinorben Normanby Sligo EARLS. Burlington Bruce Charlemont Clarendon Cork Cottenham Derby Ducie Mostyn Monson Montfort Portman Stourton Suffield Vaux Vernon Paired off. Lord Stuart de Decies Lord Belhaven Duke of Grafton Lord De Freyne Earl Cornwallis Lord St. John Earl of Lauderdale Earl of Longford ADDRESSES TO HER MAJESTY. LORD J. RUSSELL: Sir, there is a subject to which the House will perhaps allow me to call its attention, although I do not at present intend to give any notice of Motion with regard to it. It is a subject worthy of the attention of this House; and if I find that there is a general opinion in the House in conformity with what I have to state, I shall certainly propose some alterations in our orders with respect to it. I allude to the manner in which addresses from this House to the Crown are agreed upon. The House is aware that on any subject that requires to be legislated upon, whether it be a question of finance or a subject of general legislation, the House has an opportunity of considering and deciding upon that subject on more than one occasion; so that if resolution any of the House with regard to it does not appear to have the consent of the majority in its favour, the House can afterwards, at a subsequent stage of the proposition, reverse its proceedings. Now, with respect to addresses to the Crown, the case, it is well known, is entirely different; because when an address is moved, and has once been carried, it is immediately ordered that certain Members of the House shall present that address to Her Majesty. The consequence is that the advisers of the Crown must either advise the Crown to comply immediately with that address, or should they advise the Crown not to comply, it tends certainly to a breach between the House of Commons and the Crown, | related to that appointment, and, conse which it is desirable to avoid except on quently, on that ground he was prepared very grave occasions. Of course Her Ma- to opposed the second reading of the Bill. jesty's advisers can advise Her Majesty By way of making his position clear, he not to comply with the address; but they begged to refer to Schedules " A,” “ B,” are not very likely to do that. It seems to and " C," in which were enumerated Acts me, therefore, that it would be advisable, of Parliament by which the power at prein order to place addresses to the Crown sent exercised by the Lord Lieutenant, on the same footing as other proceedings with or without the advice of the Privy of this House, that we should pursue the Council, were proposed to be confided to course with regard to any such address, other hands. Schedules "A" and "B" whenever it is proposed, which we should proposed, the former to transfer the powers pursue with respect to addresses to the to the Privy Council of Ireland alone, and Crown in answer to the Queen's Speech on the latter to transfer certain powers therein the first day of the Session. In that case, named to the Privy Council of Ireland. when an address is agreed to in this House, The Privy Council of Ireland, like that of it is moved that it be referred to a Select England, though the chief council for purCommittee to make a report on the follow-poses of State, he regretted to say, was ing day, and that report is then taken into consideration. This course, therefore, gives the House another opportunity of discussing and reconsidering the question. As I have said, I will not give a notice of Motion on this subject; but I wish hon. Gentlemen to consider whether by general agreement for I do not expect a contest on such a point--we may not make some alteration in the Orders of this House to the effect which I have now stated. LORD LIEUTENANCY ABOLITION (IRELAND) BILL. Order read, for resuming Adjourned Debate on Amendment proposed to Question [10th June], That the Bill be now read a Second Time;" and which Amendment was to leave out the word "now," and at the end of the Question to add the words upon this day six months." 66 Question again proposed, "That the word 'now' stand part of the Question." Debate resumed. MR. C. ANSTEY said, that, although he approved of the principle of the abolition of the vain and idle pageantry called the Viceroyalty of Ireland, he was not prepared to extend one inch further the principle of centralisation. He approved of the first five clauses of the Bill, but he would not support its further progress if the noble Lord was determined to abide by the machinery which it was the object of the concluding clauses to substitute for the present system. This Bill was called the Lord Lieutenancy Abolition Bill, and if it stopped there he should say he would have no objection to it. But the most important part of the Bill was kept out of sight-he meant the appointment of a fourth Secretary of State. He objected to all that never summoned unless on holyday occasions, its duties having been usurped by the Cabinet Council, a body unknown to the common law. When he came to Schedule "C," he found the powers of no less than twenty-seven Acts of Parliamentsome of them Acts of the Irish Parliament-proposed to be taken away by that Schedule, as well as by Clause 11, to which it related; and these powers to be taken from the Privy Council of Ireland, and vested in the hands of one Secretary of State, whether at present existing, or hereafter to be appointed by Her Majesty, and resident in London. It was further proposed to give this Minister the power of destroying whatever remnant of commerce remained in Ireland, by creating a quarantine, which they already knew, by the reports of their commissioners, to have had a most injurious effect on the commerce of any port where they had been established. They never were effectual for the purpose of accomplishing that which they were aimed at; but they were singularly effectual for the purpose of destroying commerce. In this country, namely, in England, Scotland, and Wales, a quarantine could not be proclaimed unless by an order of the Queen in Council; but in Ireland the merchants would be dependent for the continuance of their commerce on the whim or caprice of the Secretary of the day. He further found that, in the department of law and justice, the Bill proposed to give the Secretary power to alter the time and place at which assizes, sessions of the peace, civil-bill sessions, and the like, were to be held, such as the Lord Lieutenant in Council possessed at present. Whilst, as regarded the constabulary-that standing army not voted annually by that House if report could be believed, it was intended | vernment of Ireland, it is entitled on these to convert them into a sort of garde mo- accounts to at least the most respectful bile; and, though originally intended to be consideration of this House. I consider a purely local force, they would in future the main question to be, wili the arrangebe subject to be drafted in sections or bodies ment proposed by the Bill conduce to the to any part of the kingdom-a power which good and satisfactory government of Irewas heretofore confined to the Lord Lieu- land? All other considerations are, I aptenant by the advice of the Privy Council. prehend, subordinate to that. The withAgain, there was the periodical valuation drawal of the Lord Lieutenant from Ireof Ireland, on which valuation taxes and land may or may not affect some local and rates were assessed. That valuation was partial interests, but still, if the result of to take place every fourteen years; and the measure shall be to promote the end of the commissioners, valuators, and other good government in Ireland, all other conmembers composing the machinery that siderations of partial and local injury are carried out the Act, were appointed by in my opinion to be regarded as subordinate. the Lord Lieutenant, who, in Council, had I wish I could see with the same confidence the power to make certain alterations or with which some Gentlemen see the unchanges, for the purposes of relieving pro- equivocal advantages of this Bill; but I perties of certain amount from undue bur-own that, while upon the whole I am perdens resulting from taxation. But now it fectly willing to consent that the experiwas proposed to transfer these powers to ment should be made, I am bound, in givan almost irresponsible and totally non- ing that consent, to say that I do so with resident functionary. That did not show much hesitation and doubt as to the advana disposition to govern Ireland for the tages which, in the estimation of many Irish, which, in his opinion, could never be Gentlemen, are likely to result from it. Of accomplished save by discountenancing this I am confident, that if you are to have jobbery, and allowing a local executive. local authorities who, without the responEvery step taken was in the wrong direc-sibility of the Lord Lieutenant, will assume tion; and, unless he received full and thorough satisfaction on the points which he had raised, he was ready to vote against the Bill. Ever since the legislative Union Ireland had been undergoing a progressive decline, and during the whole of that time there had been a Lord Lieutenant. The present Viceroyalty was a most contemptible one, its powers being more circumscribed than those of the municipalities. They would do well to abolish it. But for what purpose? For the purpose of replacing it by a reality-by something having a useful operation, and accessible to the whole population of Ireland. The Executive Government of Ireland ought to be strictly local, and it was because it was not so that the legislation of that country was all vicious. All the present evils had grown up under a system of centralisation, and yet it was now proposed to make that system still more absolute. Unless he received most satisfactory assurance that the Minister to be armed with the new powers would be bound to reside in Ireland, except when attending to his duties in Parliament, he should oppose the further progress of the Bill. the executive functions of Government, Ireland will derive no advantage whatever from the measure. I am quite aware of the difficulties which men, even of high character and great acquirements, have in administering the government of Ireland; but these difficulties are not, I apprehend, so much felt on account either of their personal qualities or on account of the constitution of the office of Lord Lieutenant itself, as on account of difficulties inherent in the state of society in Ireland; which difficulties will, to a very considerable extent, continue to operate, even if this office is removed. I feel that there are some difficulties inherent in the constitution as regards this matter. When there was a local Parliament in Ireland, the relation of the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant was a national and constitutional relation. The Chief Secretary was then in immediate connexion with the Lord Lieutenant. He stood in a subordinate capacity; all he did emanated from the authority of the Lord Lieutenant, and his relation to him corresponded in all material respects to the relation in which a Minister of State ordinarily stands with SIR R. PEEL: Sir, considering that reference to the Crown. When you abothis Bill is brought forward by Her Ma- lished the local legislature, and transferjesty's Government, and that the undoubt-red the Secretary's Parliamentary functions ed object of it is to promote the good go-to this side of the water, you altered ma |