Stirling, sir W. Strahan, A. Strutt, J. H. Sturt, II. Sullivan, rt. hon. J. Sumner, G. H. Bathurst, rt. hon. B, Bentinck, lord F. Fane, Thos. Fellowes, W. H. M'Naghten, E. A. Suttie, sir Jas. Beresford, lord G. Fetherstone, sir T. Beresford, sir J. Finch, hon. E. Magennis, R. Maitland, E. F. Manners, lord C. Sutton, rt. hon. C. M. Swann, H. Taylor, J. Bernard, lord Foley, hon. A. Manners, lord R. Taylor, Watson Blackburne, J. J. Folkes, sir M. B. Bloomfield, sir B. Forester, C. W. Manners, gen. Mellish, W. Thynne, lord J. Bolland, John Foster, J. L. Michel, gen. Boswell, A. Frank, Frank Mills, Charles Boughey, sir J. F. Fynes, H. Bradshaw, R. H. Gell, P. Mitford, W. Bridport, lord Gilbert, D. G. Brogden, James Gipps, G. Brydges, sir S. E. Golding, E. Morgan, sir C. Buller, James Gooch, T. S. Morgan, C. Buller, sir E. Goulburn, H. Neville, R. Burrell, sir C. Grant, C. Newman, R. W. Burrell, Walter Grant, F. W. Nicholl, sir J. Butterworth, Jos. Grant, A. C. Noel, sir G. Benson, R. Greville, sir C. Northey, Wm. Calley, Thos. Hall, B. Calvert, John Campbell, Alex. Cartwright, W. R. Curtis, sir W. Curzon, hon. R. Davenport, Davies Denys, sir G. W. Harvey, Charles Honyman, R. B. J. Jenkinson, hon. C. Keck, G. A. L. Kirkwall, vise. Knox, Thos. O'Neil, hon. J. Pechell, sir T. Pennant, G. H. D. Porter, G. Richardson, W. Ryder, right hon. R. Scott, rt. hon. sir W. Smith, ald. C. Lascelles, visc. Lefevre, C. Ş. Leigh, C. Leigh, J. H. Smith, S. Leigh, sir R. H. Sneyd, Nat. Leigh, Thos. Dowdeswell, J. E. Lemon, sir Wm. Leslie, C. P. Disbrowe, E. Deerhurst, visc. Drake, W. T. Drummond, G. H. Duckworth, sir J. Dugdale, Dugdale Duncombe, C. Edmonstone, sir C. Egerton, W. Somerset, lord E. Somerset, lord G. Staniforth, J. Stewart, sir J. Martin, John Mathews, hon. gen. Meyler, R. Milton, visc. Monck, sir C. HOUSE OF LORDS. Monday, May 12. ROMAN CATHOLIC PETITIONS.] The Earl of Donoughmore moved, that the House be summoned for Friday, for the discussion of the Catholic question. Ordered. Earl Fitzwilliam presented a petition from certain Catholics of the county of Warwick, and against the measure of the Veto. After the petition had been read, his lordship said, that though it was numerously signed, yet he had authority to state that many most respectable Catholics of the same counties did not concur in the propriety of thus petitioning the legislature. Lord Kenyon observed, that it appeared there was a considerable difference of opinion among the Catholics themselves, and it might be material to have this petition printed; and he moved that it be printed, together with the signatures. Earl Grey said, if he rightly understood the petition, it was to this effect-that the petitioners had heard that it was in the contemplation of the legislature to adopt the regulation called the Veto, with reference to the Catholics, of which regulation the petitioners highly disapproved. Whence the petitioners received that information he did not know. There was no reason to believe that a bill of that kind was to come from the other House; and, as far as he knew, no such thing was in the contemplation of his noble friend who was to move the discussion of the Catholic claims on Friday. It had been observed, that there appeared to be a difference among the Catholics themselves, because some of them had come forward with this petition against the regulation of the Veto. His noble friend stated that he had received assurances from many most respectable Catholics of these two counties, that they did not concur in that petition. He was glad to hear it; and as he had for several sessions presented petitions from the general body of the Catholics, he might be permitted to say that they had always studiously refrained from dictating to or making conditions with the legislature, and had left the whole matter to the wisdom and discretion of parliament. That was the mode which he approved, and indeed the only mode in which it was proper for the petitioners to come forward; for, whatever might be his own opinion as to the Veto-his opinion having been once favourable to it, though that opinion was now entirely changed-yet the whole question ought to be left open to the House, and to the legislature. When, however, the noble lord talked of a difference of opinion among the Catholics, though they might differ in their notions as to the mode in which the measure ought to be framed, it did not therefore follow, that they were not prepared to yield a due obedience to such regulations as the legislature might think fit to enact. The legislature had certainly to consider for itself what regulations would be most beneficial to the country; and when parliament should have decided, he trusted there could be no doubt as to the obedience of the Catholics. The Lord Chancellor said, there was no instance upon the Journals, of the House having ordered a petition presented to that House to be printed; and the printing of a petition would be the commencement of an entirely new practice. The House would, therefore, probably think it right to pause before it adopted that course. The petition would be laid on the table, and such noble lords as wished to examine it, would have abundant opportunity for that purpose. He agreed, that petitioners were not to prescribe to the legislature what measures or regulation to adopt; but the legislature ought to judge for itself, and adopt such measures as it might in its own discretion deem best calculated to promote the interests and happiness of the community; and when they came to the discussion of the Catholic claims, their lordships would, he trusted, bear in mind, that it was a question of the highest importance, and one which went to the very vitals of the constitution of this Protestant country. They had The Earl of Donoughmore said, he certainly had no intention of proposing to their lordships the adoption of the regulation of the Veto. He agreed that petitioners ought not to make conditions with the legislature, and the Catholics had not attempted to make such conditions, but had temperately, though firmly, stated their claims to be admitted to the rights and privileges of the constitution. Far from making conditions, their aim had been to offer conciliation. offered a substitute for the Veto; and one which they conceived well calculated to remove the apprehensions of the greatest alarmists on the subject of foreign influence. He should not have said any thing on the question at present, hit not been for the alarm bell whic by the learned lord on . reference to the safety of th establishments. He was sor high an authority as the learn should, in so early a stage of the prozed ing, have endeavoured to create a prejudice against the claims of the Catholics, and put an extinguisher on their hopes. been rung isack, with tant 80 ord Lord Kenyon had not said that there was any difference among the Catholics as to the point of obedience; but as there was some difference of opinion among them as to the regulations which ought to be adopted, he had thought it of some consequence to have this petition with the signatures printed. As he understood, however, that it was irregular to print a petition, he would withdraw his motion. My Lords; I have felt considerable hesitation and reluctance in bringing forward for discussion the question on which your lordships have been summoned to attend this night; not because it is not of great importance, or that it does not claim from your lordships the most serious attention, but because it is in my hands, exposed to difficulties, which I feel myself It is, in the first place, a legal question, to which I, unlearned as I am, can little hope to do justice, considering the legal ability and experience, which, I have too much reason to fear, will be arrayed against me. It is, in the second place, a consti view, it is of the utmost importance to the freedom of the press, and the liberty of the people, I have had but too many proofs, that this character alone is sufficient to deprive it of all interest, if not to expose it, when brought forward by me, to the suspicion and disfavour of those, to whom my arguments must this night be addressed. In this respect, as it appears to me, a lamentable change has taken place in the feelings of this and the other House of Parliament. Our affections are now all on the side of prerogative; our Lord Holland said, that as to the irregularity of printing a petition, he had some doubt, though he admitted that was the usual practice of the House; but, to select for printing this petition, signed by some individual Catholics, in opposition to the mode of proceeding adopted by the great body of the Catholics, he thought invi-ill qualified to encounter. dious, as it appeared like an attempt to get the question argued and decided on exparte evidence. He agreed, that it was fair to consider what was most likely to conciliate the Catholics, as part of the ground on which the question rested, but he could not help remarking, that a state-tutional question; and though, in this ment by the petitioners of what their wishes were, was not a refusal to obey whatever the legislature might think proper to enact. He wondered at the warmth of the learned lord on the woolsack, who, in a loud and thundering tone, which there was nothing in the present discussion to call forth, had declared that the question went to the very vitals of the constitution. As there was nothing to provoke this warmth at present, and as the learned lord was not in the habit of being out of humour, he was led to conclude that the learned lord had been roused into this ex-fears, of popular rights and privileges. It traordinary heat by that state of constant warfare and contention in which he must be engaged with such of his colleagues in office as approved of this measure, which went to the very vitals of the constitution. The learned lord, then, sat in council, and continued in office, with those who, according to his ideas, were favourably disposed towards measures which would subvert the constitution from its foundation; but he trusted that their zeal for their side of the question had been also roused by their warfare and contention with the learned lord, and that the Catholics would have the advantage of that zeal when the question came to be discussed. The petition was laid on the table. LORD SIDMOUTH'S CIRCULAR LETTER.] -The order of the day having been read, Earl Grey rose and spoke in substance as follows:*. * From the original edition printed for Ridgways, with the following ADVERTISE MENT: "The following Speech is given, as accurately as was possible, from memory, with the assistance of the printed accounts is no longer the encroachments of power of which we are jealous, but of the too great extension of freedom. Every symptom of popular uneasiness, every ill-regulated effort of that spirit, without which liberty cannot exist, but which, whilst it exists, will break out into occasional excesses, affords a pretence, which we seem emulous to seize, for imposing on it new restraints; whilst all the increased advantages of the Crown, in the extension of our military establishments, in the augmentation of our revenue, and in the patronage and influence annexed to its collection, seem to pass unnoticed, in our anxiety to support and strengthen the executive government, whenever called upon to do so, by new of the debate in the newspapers. The line of argument has been scrupulously adhered to, though capable of many improvements and additions, had they been thought consistent with the general fidelity of the report. This, it is hoped, will not appear to have been materially departed from by introducing, towards the conclusion of the Speech, for the sake of convenience, two or three passages from the reply." The Circular Letter of the noble secretary of state, addressed to the lord lieute nants of counties in England and Wales (whether properly addressed to the lords lieutenants of counties, where the object was to communicate with the magistrates, I and extraordinary powers. Feeling the effects of this change, it is for this, amongst other reasons, that I have resolved, upon this occasion, not to offer to the House any distinct proposition with respect to the important inatter which, I am about to bring under your consideration; fear-will not now inquire), is before the House. ing, that, if I were to do so, I should only give occasion for an adverse decision, and thereby injure those interests, which I am anxious to uphold and to protect. I shall therefore, this night, content myself with moving for the Case laid before the Law Officers of the Crown by the secretary of state, upon which their opinion has been given, as to the powers of justices of the peace to hold to bail, or commit to prison for want of bail, any persons accused of publishing blasphemous and seditious libels. We shall, by this course, have the advantage of not coming to a premature decision on a subject of such vital importance; and an opportunity will be afforded of examining it carefully in all its bearings. I cannot conceive what reasonable objection can be urged against producing the information which I require. It is of the greatest consequence that we should be possessed of it, to see on what precise grounds the opinion was given; whether it was applicable to the case; and whether the purpose of the noble secretary of state was fairly brought under the consideration of the law officers of the Crown. My motion, then, will be simply for the production of the case but I shall take the opportunity, which this motion affords me, of supporting it by such general observations on the whole subject, as, I trust, will prove to your lordships how deserving it is of your most serious attention.* *The following is a copy of the Circular Letter, and also of the Opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown thereupon. Copy of CIRCULAR LETTER from lord viscount Sidmouth, to his majesty's lieutenants of counties in England and Wales. Whitehall, 27th March 1817. My Lord,-As it is of the greatest importance to prevent, as far as possible, the circulation of blasphemous and seditious pamphlets and writings, of which for a considerable time påst great numbers have been sold and distributed throughout the country; I have thought it my duty to consult the law servants of the Crown, The letter states, that the dangerous and extensive circulation of blasphemous and seditious libels had induced the secretary of state to consult the law officers of the Crown, as to the power of bringing before a justice of the peace, and compelling to answer for his conduct, any person found selling, or in any way publishing such pamphlets and writings: that the law officers had answered, that a justice of peace might issue his warrant to apprebend a person charged upon oath with the publication of such libels, and compel him to give bail; and the lord lieutenant is then desired to make known to the chairman at the next quarter sessions the substance of this communication," in order that he may recommend it to the magistrates to act upon it in all cases, where any person shall be found offending against the law in the manner above-mentioned." The character, then, of this extraordinary letter-for extraordinary I must call it, as there is no precedent, that I have ever heard of, for such a proceeding-is this; that, having consulted the law officers of the Crown, the secretary of state has, upon the ground of their opinion, taken upon him to instruct the magistrates in their judicial duty. The dangerous consequences of such a precedent I shall hereafter endeavour to point out. The Letter states, that the Opinion related to blasphemous and seditious libels. In the opinion I do not find the word blasphe whether an individual found selling, or in any way publishing such pamphlets or writings, might be brought immediately before a justice of the peace, under a warhis conduct. rant issued for the purpose, to answer for The law officers having accordingly taken this matter into their consideration, have notified to me their opinion, that a justice of the peace may issue a warrant to apprehend a person, charged before him upon oath with the publication of libels of the nature in question, and compel him to give bail to answer the charge. Under these circumstances, I beg leave to call your lordship's attention very particularly to this subject; and I have to |