departments, and for fixing an order for payment under fuch regulations as his Majesty trufts will effectually fecure the due execution of the Prince's intentions.

"His Majesty will direct an estimate to be laid before the Houfe, of the fum wanting to complete, in a proper manner, the work which has been undertaken at Carleton-house, as foon as the fame can be prepared with fufficient accuracy, and recommends it to his faithful Commons to confider of making fome provifion for that purpose.

"G. R."

The Addrefs was dated the 24th of May 1787, and the House of Commons complied with the wifhes, and reiterated the fentiments expreffed by his Majefty in the Meffage.

Colonel Stanley faid it was with regret that he found himself under the neceflity of faying any thing upon the subject before the House. That Houfe had already very liberally come forward to pay the debts of his Royal Highnefs. They were now called upon to difcharge his debts a fecond time. This being a bufinefs of the first importance, the Houfe ought to be fully attended, and for that purpose he thought a Call of the Houfe fhould take place. He wished that the eftablishment of his Royal Highnefs fhould be as fplendid as poflible. But he would leave it to his own feelings, whether, in the diftreffed state of the country, without inquiry and due deliberation, he could again expect that Houfe to difcharge thefe debts. He did not wifh to fay any thing bordering on difrespect to his Royal Highnefs, or any one branch of the Royal Family; but furely the Houfe ought to proceed deliberately on a matter of such magnitude. He therefore wifhed for a full attendance on the difcuffion of the fubject. The fituation of the country demanded it. A number of the Members of the Houfe had gone into, the country under an idea that no more burdens, for the prefent feffion, were to be laid on their conftituents. In all points of view, therefore, a Call of the House appeared to him to be neceffary.

The Speaker obferved, that, in point of order and regularity of proceeding, it would be neceffary to difpofe of the queftion before the Houfe, previous to any thing being faid on the subject of a Call of the Houfe. When a motion fhould be made with respect to the day of taking his Majefty's Meffage into confideration, it would then be regular to bring forward the fubject of the Call, to which the Hon. Member had alluded; but the rules of the House required that his Majefty's Meffage hould be referred to a Committee of the whole House.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, it was his intention to move, that the Houfe fhould go into a Committee of the whole Houfe that day fe'nnight, to confider of this Meffage

from

from his Majefty. If the Houfe fhould be of opinion, that the measure recommended ought to be adopted, he fhould. hope, he confeffed, that the Hon. Gentleman would not prefs the motion for a Call of the Houfe. He did not with in any degree to difguife the magnitude and importance of the fubject. before them; nor did he mean to exprefs lefs regret than was, felt in common by every Member of that Houfe, as to the occafion which called for their deliberation. At the fame time he wifhed to fay, that it was evident from the Meffage, that his Majefty's intimation went not to the length of requiring a fpecific fum to be advanced for the prefent, in order to difcharge the principal of the debts of his Royal Highness. It was only to fet apart a certain portion of that income which might be granted by the liberality of Parliament, to the gradual difcharge of the debts of his Royal Highnefs. Whatever, therefore, Parliament out of that liberality might be difpofed to grant, was to be applied to free his Royal Highnefs from the demands of his creditors, a circumftance the moft effential to the real fplendour and dignity of his Royal Highnefs. If Parliament were to grant an income to his Royal Highnefs, for the purpose of supporting that dignity and fplendour, the firft ftep certainly ought to be to enable him to remove from his affairs all clogs and embarraffments. If it was the defire of the Houfe that this should' be done, they would reflect that it could not be done effectually, either to the fatisfaction of the creditors of his Royal Highnefs, to his own cafe and comfort, or with any view to certainty, except by enabling him to allot out of his income a certain part, as much as might appear neceflary for that purpofe. If it fhould be found that the whole fum which should be propofed for the establishment of his Royal Highness, was no more than the Houfe would have been difpofed to grant him, if his debts had never exifted, in order to fupport his houfehold, and to maintain his dignity, he trufted that the feelings of Hon. Gentlemen would be fully fatisfied. When he looked at the grants made to the Prince of Wales, the grandfather of his prefent Royal Highnefs, at a time when the scale of expence of living, to a perfon of any rank, was not in any refpect nearly fo high as it was at prefent, he owned, at the fame time, that he lamented the neceflity of the occafion, that the fum to be propofed for his Royal Highness now muft be comparatively fmall. It would be but little more than had been granted to his grandfather, from the affection and the liberality, and he might add, the wifdem and the prudence of Parliament. The House was under the unfortunate neceflity of either determining to leave his Royal Highnefs without relief, or adopting the VOL. III. mode

M

mode now propofed, or fome fuch mode of relieving him; and under all the circumftances, he trufted they would not be much inclined to narrow the amount. He thought it neceffary to flate thus much of the outline; a more particular difcuffion he thought it would not be proper for him to enter into in the prefent ftage of the proceeding. This he would however add, that on the beft confideration he had been able to give to the fubject, and to every thing connected with it, he was ready to fay, that it was not only the intereft of the Royal Family, but alfo the public duty of that Houfe, which they all felt fatiffaction in difcharging, to be liberal in allowances of this defcription; because the people were materially interested in the comfort, and even in the fplendour and dignity of the Royal Family in all its branches. When these points therefore came to be confidered, there would probably appear no neceflity for that delay which a Call of the Houfe muft neceffarily cccafion. It could not be faid to be a thing brought forward on a fudden, for an establishment for his Royal Highness had long been a matter of general expectation. Befides, there were other queftions of great public importance relative to the political ftate of the country, remaining to be difcuffed. On the great queftion of peace and war, notice had been given of a difcuffion; fo that there was no doubt that a full attendance would take place without a Call of the House, to enforce which would be attended with fome inconvenience to individuals, and attended alfo with fome delay of bufinefs. He fhould therefore hope that the Hon. Gentleman would not perfift in his intention, and prefs for the Call. He concluded with moving, "That this Meffage be taken into confideration this day fe'nnight." The question being put,

Mr. Grey faid, no Member of that Houfe, who felt it his duty to give any oppofition to any part of the eftablishment of his Royal Highnefs, could help feeling the moft unpleasant fenfations; at the fame time, however that might be, he was perfuaded that no Member who felt that to be his duty, would pafs it by, becaufe the talk was difagreeable. In his opinion, a more important fubject than this could hardly have come under the confideration of that Houfe; particularly under the circumstances of this country at this moment. This was the fecond application to Parliament to pay the debts of his Royal Highnefs, and that too after a folemn promife had been made that no future debt fhould be incurred. He did not mean to fay that the Right Hon. Gentleman, who brought the subject forward, had any improper intention; but the manner in which he had brought it forward was, he feared, calculated to

create

create a misunderstanding with the Public. The Right Hon. Gentleman had treated this as an additional income to his Royal Highnefs. Let it however be done in what fhape, or under what colour, it might, it was in fubftance neither more nor less than a provifion from Parliament to pay the debts of his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales; and he thought there could not be a more improper mode of doing it than that of adopting a plan by which the Public were likely to misunderftand the thing to be done. It would make no difference to the Public ultimately, if it were done in another manner, and it might as well be fo done at once, viz. to pay the debts of his Royal Highnefs in a fum of money, and to create a tax avowedly and fpecifically for that purpofe; it must come to that at laft, and what was the ufe of difguifing it? He wished the thing to be plainly, fairly, and diftinctly done, that the Public might clearly fee what burdens they were to bear for his Royal Highnefs. Under thefe impreffions he could not help thinking, that the mode propofed was objectionable, and that, after all that had been faid, Parliament would be called upon, and that at no very diftant period, to provide for an immenfe debt, on account of his Royal Highnefs. The Right Hon. Gentleman who brought this bufinefs forward had faid, that confidering all things, the fum propofed was not greater than the Houfe would be difpofed to grant to his Royal Highness, to support his fplendour and dignity, even if he had no debt. When the House came to confider the diminution of the national income, the increafe of our burdens, and the ftill greater increase of them that we are to expect; confidering likewife how very heavily the Public were taxed already, and how much more heavily they muft ftill be taxed, he could not help faying that the Right Hon. Gentleman's was not the best way of confidering the fubject. At a time when the cries of the ftarving poor were aflailing us on all fides, he thought that the Houfe would not be doing its duty, by granting establishments to Princes, with a profufion unparalleled. He had heard much of the dignity of his Royal Highnefs. He was of opinion that the beft dignity of the Prince of Wales would be maintained by his fhewing a feeling heart for the poor, and that he was unwilling to add to their diftreffes. That would be dignity fuperior to any thing he could gain by splendour of appearance. He left Gentlemen to judge whether they had any pleasing profpect from what was at prefent propofed. He would fay no more at that moment; he was afraid of proceeding. He did not mean nor wifh to give offence to that Auguft Perfonage. He hoped, however, the Call of the House would be enforced.

Mr. Curwen regretted, as much as any Member of that Houfe, that there fhould be any objection to the measure; but he must perform his duty as a Member of Parliament. He muft fay he was not fatisfied. He wished to fee fome provifions, on which the Houfe could rely, that no further debt fhould be incurred on the part of his Royal Highnefs. Some measure should be adopted to put that out of his power, and that measure should be brought forward for the confideration of the House. As to the obfervation of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that Parliament were to grant no more to his Royal Highness than would have been given to him if he had no debt, he muft obferve, it was not the way to proceed under the prefent condition of affairs. He wifhed Gentlemen to turn their eyes to a neighbouring country, and recollect what brought on its great convulfions; it was not from the exercife. of tyrannical power, for the late government there was admitted to have been a mild one; it arofe out of a lamentable negligence about the finances; it was that fort of negligence which plunged France into its calamities: It was not the extravagance of the Monarch, for no man was more economical than Louis XVI. but the extravagance of the Princes.-That truth, he trusted, would be well remembered. He was decidedly in favour of a Call of the Houfe.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, that the Hon. Gentleman who spoke laft feemed to have forgotten part of the Meffage of his Majefty; by the laft paragraph in it, he would fee that the very provifion against incurring further debt was exprefsly recommended; he therefore defired that that part of the Meffage might be read, which was done.

Mr. Powys faid, that though he could not agree with the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grey), that the mode propofed by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Pitt) was the most exceptionable measure that could be adopted, yet he thought the Houfe ought to mark their fenfe of the novelty and importance of the occafion, by adopting the motion for the Call of the Houfe. He was averfe to go much at large in the prefent ftage of the bufinefs. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would more fully explain the nature of the whole tranfaction, before he called upon that Houfe to come to any decifion. Notwithftanding his reluctance to make any declaration, he could not help joining in the feelings which his Majefty himself had expreffed in the Meffage. He muft fay that he felt the deepest regret, that notwithstanding the paternal liberality of his Majefty, notwithstanding the loyal zeal which the House had manifested in making provifion for the former debts, and the pledge which had then been given on the part of the Prince that no future application of that fort fhould be made,