year 1787; then they were ignorant of the Prince's fituation, but after the meflage which was then delivered to Parliament, thofe who gave him credit ought to know and to take the risk. Upon every view of the fubject, he thought it was the duty of Parliament to act with steadiness, as well for their own fakes, as for the character of monarchy, which was deeply involved in this question, and for the general fafety of the conftitution and the happiness of the people.

Mr. Fox faid, he certainly could not agree in the amendment moved by his Hon. Friend, but he must say, that in the fpeech which prefaced that motion, he had heard as much good and ftrong fenfe fpoken as ever was uttered in that Houfe, and particularly upon that point which feemed fo obnoxious to the Right Hon. Gentleman over the way-the propriety of granting any affiftance from the civil lift. He thought with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that it was better, to give the civil lift to the King for life, than annually, as his Hon. Friend had wifhed it. But he could not agree with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that the King fhould not come forward upon this occafion, because the debts were contracted without his knowledge, and out of the power of his controul. For if this reafon applied to the King, it furely more forcibly applied to the Public, who certainly had no fort of controul over the Prince's expences, nor any knowledge how they were contracted. With regard to the meffage from the King on this fubject, was there any man in the Houfe who did not know that if his Royal Highnefs's marriage had not taken place, no fuch meffage would have been heard of? It was therefore obvious that minifters approved of that marriage, which he had not the leaft doubt would eventually prove a moft happy circumstance for the country; and was it not then their duty to have prevented any fuch application as this coming to the Houfe? The Prince ought not to be accused of breach of promife; he did not believe that he had got into this dilemma intentionally; but minifters were much to blame for the bad advice they had given both to his Majefty and to the Prince. It must always be an unpleafant thing to lay new burdens on the people for the Royal Family. What had happened in a former reign had fhewn the impolicy of fuch teps; and they must be particularly obnoxious at prefent. He denied that the doctrines of his Hon. Friend were new: They were the fame as he had held, and often before mentioned in that House, fince he firft fat in it. He knew that there were fome who did not advise any reduction of expence in the Prince's eftablishments; but they were not his friends: And as to the King's expences, he always had thought

3

thought they ought to be accommodated to the civil lift, inftead of the civil lift being accommodated to them. He contended, that the opinion of the country was with him in afferting, that, if the King had honeft minifters about him, they would have advised him, for his own fake, for the Prince's, and the country's, to have come forward. At an carly period the creditors ought to have been called together, and fome means attempted to fatisfy them: If it could not have been done, then it was time to come to Parliament. He touched upon the allusions made at different times to the Prince's being connected with party politics, in oppofition, as it was called, to Government; because he happened, for the time, to agree with thofe who generally oppofed minifters. He thought the new advifers of the Prince had not increased his popularity; and believed, that his own with and inclination three years ago was, to have retrenched his expences, in order to get into fome probable train of paying his debts: But it was fufpected; and he, for one, was now certain of it, that very different advice had been given to him; and that the example of Monfieur Egalité was held out as a maxim, that, to take any steps fuch as were propofed, would be dangerous to the caufe of monarchy. He stated is grounds for voting on a former night for granting an income of 125,000l. per annum to the Prince, which were, because he thought he, or any Prince of Wales, required its and he would have fo voted if he had not been a fixpence in debt. He thought his Hon. Friend had done well in propofing that the civil lift fhould contribute towards the payment of the debts, and infifted that it was much more confiftent with thofe old fafhions which the Right Hon. Gentleman profeffed himself attached to, than the mode now propofed by an application to Parliament.

Mr. Anftruther, in a speech of fome length, replied; he faid, that giving the Prince a large income without paying his debts, he thought was putting him in a worse fituation than he now was; becaufe with a larger income, there might be greater inducement to give credit, and more to be made. by execution in failure of payments: He defended his Noble and Learned Friend, whofe advice to the Prince had been particularly pointed at, and was fure that he had never given him any advice, that was not as found, as honest, and as able as any that the Hon. Gentleman, or any other perfon whatever, could give.

Mr. W. Smith was favourable to the propofition of charging the civil lift. He defired a meffage in 1721, in the reign of Geo.

3 T2

Geo. I. to be read, where five millions was charged upon the civil lift, and conte..ded that what was then done, would hew the propriety of again doing the like.

Sir William Yonge thought it was a friendly amendment, and was in fubflange the fame with the motion.

Mr. Grey faid, he confidered any thing relating to the payment of the debts as an impofition of new burdens upon the people. He meant, confiftently with his former profes fions, to declare he thought the propofition for payment fhould meet with a direct negative. It was the only method, in his opinion, which could defend the Houfe from future applications of a fimilar nature. If he were to admit the propriety of difcharging the debts, he fhould argue, that it would much better be fixed on the civil lift. He lamented, that in the progrefs of this bufinefs the real question had always been affumed. They never had an opportunity afforded then of declaring their fentiments upon it. He fhould ever confider all voted above 100,000l. per annum as given for the payment of the debts, and as an additional burden upon the people. M. nv Gentlemen having declared they voted for the larger fum under a conviction it was neceffary to dif charge them; and though his Hon. Friend, and he knew it to be his fentiment, had declared he voted the larger fum without fuch confideration; yet he could not from thence fay it was the fentiment of the Houfe. He confidered the first establishment as called for by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) himself, which he then ftated, fufficiently ample; and he was convinced that 40,000l. additional, upon his own reafoning, must be fufficient for the purpofe. Her Majesty's establishment was but 50,000l.; it could therefore never require 65,000l. addition for the establishment of a Princefs of Wales. This carried a conviction to his mind, that fo large an establishment was not neceffary, and upon that ground ho took his ftand.

Mr. Wilberforce faid, though he had not agreed with the Hon. Gentleman in the magnitude of the fum voted, yet he called to the recollection of the Houfe, whether the queftion had not been fairly and diftinctly fubmitted to their confi deration.

Mr. Alderman Newnham faid, it had been imputed to him that he had afferted that the Prince of Wales had made a declaration that he would not incur any debt, if Parliament complied with the application made in 1787. What he did fay was, that the Prince declared if 30 or even 20,000l. a year of additional income were fettled on him, he would en

gage

gage not to incur debt-but this did not imply that if only 10,000l. of additional income were given, he could keep within it.

Mr. Baftard recommended to Mr. Sheridan to withdraw his amendment.

Mr. Sheridan faid, if there could poffibly arife any confufion in the Houfe concerning the real point to which they voted, he would withdraw his motion, and fubmit it to them hereafter in a diftinct propofition.

Mr. Sheridan expreffed his wifh, that the other fide of the Houfe were of opinion with the Hon. Gentleman who thought the amendment fo friendly; but as he had received a general intimation to the contrary, he would not hesitate to withdraw it.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer begged the indulgence of the Houfe for a few words, with which he would not have troubled them, had not fome obfervations which had fallen in the courfe of the debate provoked his reply. He had been charged with not bringing forward this motion in a fairer hape, by propofing at once the payment of the Prince's debts. To this he would briefly reply, that in no one fhape that it could prefent itfelf, would it be more queftionable. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Sheridan) had fuggefted this fhape in order to aggravate and load it with every degree of odium with which it could be burdened; and from this motive alone, was he actuated to call for it in fuch a shape. To another obfervation which had fallen from another Right Hon. Gentleman, who had afked why the Prince's eftablishment fhould be augmented from 65,000l. to 138,000l. a year, he would but remind the Houfe of the eftablishments which were ufually made for heirs of confiderable families, when advanced into a married ftate; and then it would be difcerned the proportion which a Prince of Wales's eftablishment fhould bear to that which it had been; and he faw no inconfiftency in this with his former opinion of 72,000l. being an ample provifion for him in 1787 when fingle. He felt on his part, and moft feelingly lamented the full force of many objections which had been preffed home by Gentlemen from the oppofite fide of the Iloufe, on the breach of that promife which had been pledged to Parliament when it had interfered in the Prince's debts before. But it was not a queftion then, whether they fhould measure the paft proceedings by the frict and fevere rules of a rigid inquifition, but whether, upon a feeling and candid confideration, they fhould make that provifion for his Royal Highnefs and his illuftrious confort, that would be necessary for their rank, ftation, and dig

nity? Whether they fhould, under any pretence of a fpecious liberality, deprive their Royal Highneffes of the comforts and enjoyments of life; or confer upon them freely and with the generofity becoming the character of the British nation, an ample, eafy, and dignified establishment? This, he believed, was the only wife and provident means which could be adopted towards the accomplishment of fo beneficial and politic an object. Gentlemen would diveft themselves, he hoped, of all confiderations, which on too narrow a fcale would but lead to an unjust, however apparently wife, conclufion. They would keep before their eyes that they were pro viding for the Heir Apparent of the Crown; for an effential and vital part of the conftitution; and whatever disorders and evils were fuggefted by Gentlemen to arife from any abufes, which the branches of Royal houfes had created; they would the more vigorously oppofe thofe abufes, by diverting them from the-perfons to whom they might have unfortunately attached themfelves, and by giving a new direction as well as a purer courfe to the expenditure of the Prince, they would enfure in the fafety of his perfon the general confervation of the ftate.

Mr. Milbank voted for the larger fum, confidering the Prince as a component part of the conftitution.

Mr. Sturt concluded the debate by faying, that in his mind the question was, whether, after the Prince had made a folemn pledge of his honour to the nation in 1787, not to incur debts, they would now agree to pay them?

Mr. Sheridan's amendment, by confent of the Houfe, was withdrawn.

The Houfe divided on the main queftion:

Mr. Sheridan then, with a fhort preface, moved, That a propofition having been made upon a meffage from the Throne, to make a further provifion for his Royal Highnefs the Prince of Wales, it becomes the Houfe to confider, whether this additional provifion may not be made without laying any additional burden on the people, by the reduction of useless and inconvenient places.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, without any obfervations on this motion, moved to adjourn.

Mr. Sheridan faid, it would be idle for him to make any comment on the indecency of moving to adjourn, without inquiring whether the people might not be cafed. He had

done