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cobins and their principles, that devaftation had followed in that ifland? The fame might be faid of Grenada; and no poflible cafe could be made out, which would prove that the proclamations in any manner occafioned the misfortunes which thofe iflands had lately fuffered. Another thing which might be faid with regard to thofe proclamations was, that, having been notoriously annulled and abandoned before any proceedings had been had upon them, it was impoffible that any actual grievance could be complained of, with juftice, on that account, no property of any defcription whatever having been taken from the inhabitants in confequence of the proclamation: It was therefore ftill in their poffeffion. This was notorious to all mankind. Every human being in the conquered iflands knew it, and knew that orders were gone there not to act upon them; and a proof of the most fubflantial kind was, that the people there were all in quiet peaceable poffeffion of their property. Were there not, befides, the letters of the King's minifters, which had been ftated by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Barham) to that effect? He was quite at a lofs to know what was the object of the address moved for, or what the Hon. Gentleman meant that his Majefty's minifters fhould advife the King to do. Did they with a proclamation to be difavowed which had been notoriously annulled and abandoned more than twelve months ago, and was never acted upon? or did they with, knowing that to be the cafe, and that it was fo in those islands, even before inftructions from this country could have reached them, that the King fhould difavow the proceedings of his commanders, merely because they had been, from the circumftances of the time, neceffary, and had not fince produced even inconvenience, far lefs grievance or distress? He had faid thus much, becaufe if there exifted any fears or alarms refpecting the effects of thofe proclamations, it must by this time be obvious to the House and to the country, that they were the most idle and ungrounded that could be ftated, and ought not to be countenanced.

The next point upon which he would detain the Houfe, was the general principle, as far as it was connected with the law of nations, upon which his Majefty's minifters and the commanders in the West Indies had acted. On this he would only fay, that he had acted in concert with his colleagues, and never without having what they confidered to be the beft and foundeft legal advice that they could obtain, or the country could afford him. Were it not that the perfon was prefent, to whom they owed fo much on that fubject, he would have

*

* Sir William Scott, his Majefty's Advocate General.

faid more; but it was better that the Houfe fhould have it at first hand, and he trufted that if he had faid nothing inconfiftent with the opinions of that authority, he might expect the Right Hon. Gentleman to fecond the motion. The Hon. Gentleman on the other fide, had wished to avoid going into any detail of particulars, and would have the Houfe to agree to a general propofition, without having any facts before them upon which it could be established. With regard to the fums ftated as prize-money or booty, Gentlemen ought to recollect that the King had not yet decided how it was to be difpofed of; of course nobody concerned in that expedition could be faid to have received it: With regard to the eafinefs of the conqueft, he differed widely from thofe who feemed to underrate the fervices performed; and he contended, that the degree of refiftance which the British forces met with, fully justified and warranted every proceeding that had taken place. Thofe who faid otherwife, or fpoke lightly of the gallantry and hardfhips of that expedition, muft prove that the Gazettes which he had officially received and published were forgeries. As to the time employed in the conquest of those islands, however wrongly Hon. Gentlemen had flated their opinions on that point, it mattered very little in effect, whether they were taken by a long fiege, or a rapid ftorm. Perhaps it might not be quite orderly in him to ftate a plain but honest opinion, which he had received in private correfpondence with a friend who witnefied all the glorious tranfactions of the able commanders fo often alluded to; but he would state that a friend had written to him in these words, "It was right, Mr. Dundas, to fend out none of your old women, as Generals, upon this expedition: If you had, you would have got into a damned fcrape-let me tell you that." He would only add, with regard to time, that the old proverb might, in fome degree, apply to the rapidity of fuccefs which followed the British arms in the Weft Indies-"What is foon done, is well done." He did not fay that this applied to all circumftances; but he thought it did to the cafe he had stated.

Mr. Secretary Dundas having replied to every part of the debate, as brought on by the Hon. Mover and Seconder, declared that he felt it his duty not merely to give his negative to the propofition moved, nor to get rid of it by the Order of the Day: The duty incumbent on him-the gratitude that the country owed to those gallant and meritorious men, who had done fuch brilliant fervices as had merited and received the unanimous thanks which that Houfe had already come to, pointed out the neceflity of doing fomething further. His intention, therefore, was to move two refolutions,

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lutions, the fubftance of which he would ftate. The first was, "That the inhabitants of Martinique had not availed themselves of the terms held out to them by the proclamation dated 1st January 1794, and there was no general rule founded on the law of nations refpecting private property, which entitled them to the advantages therein offered, after the refiftance they had given to his Majefty's forces.' The fecond was, "That the two proclamations of the 10th and 20th of May 1794, never having been acted upon, could not come before the Houfe for their decifion; and that the House moft cordially agreed on again expreffing their thanks to Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis, in the fame terms that their vote of thanks had been recorded on the Journals of the Houfe on the 10th of May last year." Having ftated the proposition he meant to bring forward, and his reafons for fo doing, he muft, in order to get rid of the motion, first move the previous question.

Sir W. Scott feconded the previous queftion. He objected to the original motion on the impropriety of the House coming to any abftract declaration on the law of nations; difapproving of proclamations without specifying the principles fuppofed to be untenable; or expreffing any opinion upon things depending in the competent courts, where no ftrong public intereft called for fuch expreflion of opinion. The law of nations, he faid, had provifions to regulate the mode of war or felf-defence. The rights of war were of a delicate nature, depended on particular circumftances, and muft bend to thofe circumftances, and be directed by the wisdom of the Executive Government.-General principles were laid down in a strong manner by writers; but it was on Government we were to rely for a prudent application of them. The rights of war were harfh, but yet were rights that exifted; happy would it be if the ftate of humanity, in that refpect, was altered, and war exifted no longer-but this was a point more defirable than attainable; for war muft be carried on, and being fo, must proceed according to its nature. It was not poffible to make an innoxious or a peaceable war: The very intent of war being, to compel people, by a fenfe of fuffering, to do what otherwife they would not do. To fay that war could exift without fuffering, was to refer to fomething of a different nature.

The general principle of the law of nations, was to make the private property of the individuals, fubjects of the hoftile countries, amenable to the rights of war; and its effect was to make every man that was the fubject of one state in hoftility, the enemy of every fubject of the other. The property of every individual in the ftate compofed the property of the

ftate

ftate itself, and was amenable to the rights of war. This, he faid, was the law of nations as it exifted-forry should he be if it was to be enforced rigorously; but if the Houfe were to come to a decifion on the point, they must neceffarily come to one as harsh as that.

For the enforcing and difpenfing of thofe laws, this country had proper courts; firft, the court of Admiralty, and next, the court of Appeals. The decifion of those courts was as binding as thofe of any courts of law; indeed more fo, for the Legiflature had an unlimited power over the municipal laws of the country, while its authority over the law of nations was not of fuch extent.

In the cafe of St. Eustatius, the fame principles as thofe broached this night were laid down in that House by Gentlemen of the first talents: But the court of Admiralty, and the Lords Commissioners of Appeals, attended by Lord Camden and other refpectable Judges, determined that the univerfal principle was, that the private property of individuals was fubject to confifcation.

Having, with great learning and perfpicuity, ftated the law of nations as applicable to a flate of war, and the conduct of commanders; Sir William faid, to punish error or inadver tency in the application of thofe principles, would be to fubject them to a refponfibility too rigorous for any officer to incur. In the proclamations there might be expreflions which, an mature confideration, and better advice than could be expected in actual fervice, it would be defirable to correct; but this was not the criterion by which the Houfe would judge. They would judge by the intention and the manner in which the proclamations had been acted upon. The afhdavits would not be held fufficient evidence in the courts of Admiralty for a decifion in any fingle cafe; much less could he confider them as evidence for the Houfe to found a vote upon. All the queftions both of law and fact were now at iffue in the proper courts, whofe decifion, where there appeared no public ground for the interpofition of the Houfe, was to be preferred. For thefe reafons he fhould vote for the previous question, concurring, as he did, moft heartily in the propofition for referring to the teftimony already given by the Houfe to the merits and fervices of Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis.

Mr. C. Dundas, as the ftrongest proof of the integrity of Sir Charles Grey, read extracts of feveral letters from Sir Charles to General Dundas, on the conduct to be pursued in the conquered islands. In one he faid-" With refpect to booty, I wish there was no fuch thing; I am heartily fick of it. We must take care that nothing be done to tarnish the glory of the brilliant

doings by you and the brave troops."-In another, regretting the fame difficulties, "That contributions, in lieu of booty, had been fettled with the confent of the feveral islands."-And in a third, "That the advisers of violent measures ought to be liftened to with great caution; that as moft of their information came from Frenchmen who had been emigrants, it was to be received with caution; and that fuch of them as were difpofed to violence might be permitted to quit the islands."

Sir William Young remarked that the proclamations contained principles directly in the teeth of the law of nations, as eftablished by civilians. Do as you would be done by," was in thefe enlightened and civilized times applicable to a state of war. The exercife of the right of conqueft was limited by ftate ufe. Quando hoftis in mea poteftate eft, hoftis effe definit. It was the duty of the Houfe, Sir William faid, to take from an extenfion of the right of conqueft, the weight of British authority. An army ought never to levy money for itself. The force of the proclamations, although not acted upon, was not done away by the letters from the Secretaries of State. If thofe letters were to be inferted by order in the Gazettes of the feveral islands, he fhould be fatisficd. He concurred most heartily in recording the former teftimony of the Houfe to the merits of Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis, of which none had a higher fenfe than he; but if it was to be laid down that resistance of invafion was to incur contributions and confifcation, what planter who had a family to take care of would take up arms to oppofe the enemy?

Mr. Eaft faid, he had never heard but one character of Sir Charles Grey, and he was far from meaning any imputation against him or Sir John Jervis. But if they had been led into an error by mifinformation, the Houfe was called upon to correct that error in a flronger way than the Right Hon. Secretary of State propofed. He was therefore against the previous question.

Colonel Wood. Mr. Speaker, It is feldom, Sir, that I trouble the Houfe or intrude myfelf upon your attention; but on the prefent occafion, when the characters of two officers are fo deeply implicated, of two gentlemen who from their meritorious and important fervices have every claim on the gratitude and on the protection of their country, I fhould not feel that I had properly difcharged my duty, by merely negativing the propofition of the Hon. Gentleman, without at the fame time ftating to the Houfe my own opinion upon the subject of the complaints which have been fo induftrioufly fabricated by the French Weft India planters; and which, were we to attend to, fo far from anfwering any purpose of justice, would Vor. III.

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