The House were foon to be called upon to, give their guarantee to the Auftrian loan; and the principle upon which this was to be done, was to enable the Emperor to repel the wild and democratic doctrines of the French. He thought that the fame principles which would induce the Houfe to adopt that meafure, fhould incline them to relieve his Royal Highnefs, and to place him in a state worthy of a Prince. There appeared to him fomething contradictory in the liberality of the Houfe; for at one moment they voted fifty thoufand pounds per annum to the Princefs, in cafe the furvived the Prince, and yet, during the life of his Royal Highness, they would expofe her to all the difficulties which must neceffarily attend his Royal Highnefs if the debts were not liqui

dated.

Mr. Buxton faid, the fum of one hundred and twenty-five thousand pounds a year was voted to maintain the neceffary fplendour of the Prince for the benefit of the Public, and not for the payment of his debts. He wished the feveral points had been brought forward in fuch a manner as to afford the Houfe an opportunity of voting upon each of them feparately.

Lord William Ruffel fpoke in favour of the motion; but added, that, if the House refifted it, and came to decide upon the queftion-Whether the larger or the fnialler fum was to be granted? he would certainly vote for the fmaller. He had, upon a former night, voted for the fmaller fum, upon the conviction that his duty to his conftituents required it. He could not avoid expreffing his fincere hope that thofe who advised his Majesty, would fuggeft to him the propriety of coming forward upon this occafion, and participate in the burdens of the people. With refpect to another plan which had been fuggefted for the payment of the debts, by an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huffey), by the fale of the Crown lands, he hoped that Gentleman would perfift in his plan, and for one it should have his hearty fupport.

Mr. Bouverie faid, that, as the Houfe had once already paid the debts of his Royal Highnefs, and that under the pledge that no fuch embarraffment fhould again happen, they could not, confiftently, vote away the public money for fuch a purpose. Another thing that he wifhed the House to advert to was, that a Right Hon. Gentleman on the bench below him had on a former night faid, that, if the debts were to be paid, fome preventive meafure fhould be adopted against the poffibility of any fuch debts being incurred in time to come: This he thought abfolutely neceffary, and that it ought to extend to all the Royal Family.

VOL. III.

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Mr.

Mr. Fox faid, that he certainly wished fome scheme to be adopted, to prevent fimilar embarraflments in future; and that it fhould apply to all Princes of Wales: But that was not immediately connected with the motion then before the House.

Mr. Bouverie faid, he must move an amendment to the inftruction, by inferting, after the word his, in that part of the meffage which provides "against bis incurring any debts," the words" or any other branch of the Royal Family."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, he must oppofe the amendment; because it was the with of every person in the Houfe that the motion fhould be as much fimplified as poffible, which would not be the cafe if that amendment took place. He confeffed, that he had no objection to what had been fuggefted by the Right Hon. Gentleman over against him-that all Princes of Wales in future ought to be prevented from getting into fimilar fituations: The other branches of the Royal Family were by no means in fimilar fituations; and he thought the Hon. Gentleman would, upon reconfideration, agree to withdraw his motion.

Mr. Bouverie, with leave of the Houfe, withdrew his amendment.

Mr. W. Smith spoke against the motion, becaufe the House, and the Public, had a right to know the amount and the nature of the debts before they were called upon to pay them. He was the more convinced that there was a neceflity for fome inquiry of this fort, becaufe, without going into the business of probable extortion, by blood-fuckers, leeches, and other fuch terms which had been used, it was clear, that the more thofe debts could be reduced with juftice, the more eafily they' would be paid off.

Mr. Francis faid, that as this queftion was likely to go to a divifion, and as the attention of the Public was attracted, not only to the general refolutions of the House in this business, but to the particular conduct of individuals, he was very defirous that the principles on which he had already voted, and thofe on which he meant to vote that night, fhould be exactly understood. An explanation was the more neceflary, becaufe, by the form of proceeding which had been obferved, the vote given did not exprefs or convey the real meaning and full intention of the perfon who gave it. On the face of the vote itfelf it did not appear whether, for example, a person who voted for the higher eftablishment, meant that every part of it fhould or fhould not be applied to the discharge of debt, or whether he who voted for the lower fum, did or did not. mean to exclude himfelf from all the confideration of the debts and incumbrances. That, as it did not depend on him

to

to alter the mode of proceeding, he was forced to vote fimply, yes or no, to the motions as they came before him. When the queftion was put to him on a former occafion, what establishment he would vote for upon a general view of the provision fit for the Heir Apparent, combined with the fituation of the country, and abstractedly from any confideration what foever of his Royal Highness's debts and incumbrances; for that was precifely the ftate in which the queftion came before him; the anfwer he gave it by his vote was, that one hundred thoufand pounds was fufficient. But he did not mean by that vote to preclude all confideration whatever of the debts. He knew that it was a cafe of neceflity, which fooner or later would force itfelf on the attention of Parliament, and with greater difadvantage the longer it was put off.

The Houfe had determined in favour of the higher eftablishment, and he must take it for granted that the House would adhere to that refolution. The question, therefore, before him at prefent was, whether he would or would not concur with a propofition made by his Royal Highnefs himself, to apply a confiderable portion of the fum they have already voted, and which, whether fo applied or not, would be equally a burden on the people, to the difcharge of his debts, or whether that whole income fhould be left without any obligation upon it, and finally, perhaps, to be spent without having contributed materially to that very fervice, on account of which, in the minds of many Gentlemen, the higher eftablishment had been confented to. This being strictly the ftate of the queftion then to be determined, he did not fee how he could confcientiously, or with juftice to the Public, refufe his affent to the propofition as it flood.

Sir John Call argued for an immediate discharge of the debt. The beft and leaft burdenfome way of providing for it, he took to be, the fale of the Dutchy of Cornwall, which from calculations he had made, he conceived would in every refpect be advantageous to the Public, and relieve the Prince from his embarraffments.

Mr. Wilberforce thought that fome inquiry ought to be made, as to the manner in which the debts had been contracted, because it might be productive of fome advantage. He had voted for the fmaller fum on a former night, and though he had every wish to allow a proper and fplendid establishment to the Prince, he muft confider the prefent urgent neceflity for

economy.

Mr. Maurice Robinson spoke against the motion.

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The Mafer of the Rolls (Sir R. P. Arden) obferved, that to 'thofe who had differed on the allowance of 100,000l. and 125 cool. to the Prince, it was ftill competent to revise their opinion.

Mr. Burdon thought on the contrary, that the House was pledged to the vote which it had given on the former occafion. He nevertheless thought it his duty to oppofe any additional burden being laid upon the country, and would throughout oppose the scheme of paying thofe debts.

Mr. Sturt faid he recollected to have been in the Houfe during the laft Parliament, when in 1787 his Majesty's minister had brought down a meffage from the King, recommending the payment of the Prince of Wales's debts, but upon the exprefs condition that no future application of the fame nature fhould be made; and the minifter had gone the length of affuring the Houfe, that he, individually, would refufe to bring down any meffage of the kind again; he was therefore furprised at the prefent proceeding, and must infift that no Member who was in the Houle at that time, could confiftently, or with any propriety, agree to pay the Prince's debts a fecond time; and if they did, he faw no fecurity but that they might be called upon again.

Sir William Delben agreed to vote for the inftruction moved, because formerly the Houfe had only the affurance of the minifter upon the fubject, but the meffage of that day expreffed, that his Royal Highnefs himfelf was defirous to avoid future embarrafiment, and upon this affurance he had great reliance. With regard to Hanover, he doubted whether his Majesty received from that Electorate any thing after defraying its expenditure; and as to the Dutchy of Cornwall, if the Prince of Wales, from the time he was born, became entitled to the revenues of it, and that they had not been accounted for, it might be matter of inquiry; but he faw no reason that the country had to look to his Majefly for the payment of any part of thefe debts.

Mr. Bankes faid, he conceived the voting of any fum for the establishment of the Prince, to be totally distinct from yoting money to pay his debts, which he thought the Houfe ought not to be called upon to do, after the meffage that had been recorded on their journals in 1787. With regard to what had been faid refpecting the marriage, he did not conceive that the Houfe was at all implicated, or in any degree a party to it; the debts were notorious before that event took place, and it might have been concluded without their knowing any thing of the matter. The payment of debts must

always

always be unpleasant to that Houfe. He did not approve of measures that went only to check fuch things, and thought that the only way to prevent them in future was, by not paying the debts incurred in the prefent cafe.

Mr. Sumner faid, it was difficult to fpeak on an affair of fuch a delicate nature, that the accounts which were the subject of the prefent difcuffion, that the items could not be laid on the table. In his opinion the creditors fhould be left to their fate. They must have known that the revenues of the Dutchy of Cornwall, and the furniture of Carlton Houfe, were all they had to rely on for their indemnification. If they went beyond the amount of thofe, they were aware of the risk, and should abide the confequences. The queftion before the Houfe was fimply, Whether they fhould entertain any difcuffion refpecting the debts of the Prince of Wales? His opinion went most strongly to negative any fuch propofition. He found, from the general tenor of the arguments of different Gentlemen on that night, that a doubt feemed to arife as to the principle on which the larger fum was voted, whether it was with the intent that a certain portion fhould be applied for the liquidation of the debts of his Royal Highnefs, or whether it was intended that the whole of that fum fhould go entirely to his eftablishment. He would propofe an amendment to the motion of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which might tend more fully to explain the intentions of thofe Gentlemen who voted for the larger fum.

The amendment was to the following' effect: "That so much of the original motion as related to the liquidation of the debts of his Royal Highnefs, from his annual establishment of 125,000l. fhould be omitted."

Mr. Grey feconded the amendment, because he thought it tended to fimplify the motion; he thought thofe who, like himself, were willing to give the Prince a proper and suitable allowance, but at the fame time were of opinion that the Houfe had nothing to do with his debts, had not been fairly dealt with. Upon a former occafion many had voted for the larger fum, because they thought it neceffary to the splendour. of his establishment, who would not have voted for it if they had thought any part of it was to be appropriated to the payment of his debts. However, the Houfe was not pledged by any thing that had been done, and might alter it if they should think proper; it was not one of thofe cafes where money had been advanced in confequence of a refolution of the House, which ought always to be confirmed. He declared himself to be entirely againit the payment of the debts in any way, as a queftion that ought not to be entertained in the House. He confidered

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