to the House for a proper establishment, and when it had been granted, that the meffage had followed from the Prince, requiring the appropriation of part of his income for the discharge of the debt. At any rate he must confider minifters as refponfible for the former meffage, which contained the affurance that no fecond application fhould be made. They ought undoubtedly to have taken fome means to enforce that affurance, and they were now bound to explain to the House why such means had not been taken. He wished the motion was diftinctly put according to the ultimate intention of it. The Right Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer had faid, that it went only to an appropriation of income, and not to a discharge of debts, as debts-but the Houfe would fee that it was impoffible to debate it merely on that ground; for although it was stated that the income was allowed as neceflary for the maintenance of the Prince's rank, confidered abftractedly from his incumbrances, that was by no means the prevailing opinion of the majority; for many voted for the larger fum, expressly with a view that a part of it fhould be fet afide for the payment of debts: That being the cafe, the prefent, he faid, must be confidered as an application for the payment of debts. He adverted to what Mr. Duncombe had faid of the particular period, and asked whether at this time of calamity and distress, when the peafant was fuffering from the want of bread, they ought to vote away the money of their conftituents for the purpose of discharging debts which ought never to have been contracted? After what had paffed, no reliance could be had that those provifions, which might be made with respect to future conduct, would be of any avail. The only way which the House had of difcharging their duty, was to meet the prefent application with a direct refufal. His Hon. Friend had stated that by this refufal her Royal Highnefs would be expofed to taunts and infults. He hoped that even with the fmaller income and proper economy, there would be found fufficient means to make provifion for the difcharge of the debts, more especially as in fuch a fituation the Prince would be able to come to a compofition with his creditors upon much better terms than if the idea was to be held out, that the bufinefs was to be taken up by that Houfe. We know, faid Mr. Grey, that there are great means in the poffeffion of an Illuftrious Perfonage, and it is hoped that he will be induced to come forward with his affiftance, both from regard to the credit of his family, and in order to maintain the refpect due to royalty, which, as an Hon. Gentleman well obferved, "can only beft be preferved by rendering it as little as poffible op

preffive

preffive to the people." Thefe were the confiderations which had irrefiftibly compelled him to the difcharge of a duty, the moft painful he had ever experienced fince he had the honour of a feat in that Houfe.

Mr. Secretary Dundas faid, that he would not trouble the Houfe farther than to direct their attention to a particular point which had been difcuffed, and to a topic which had been introduced in a new and extraordinary manner into debate. It had already, he faid, been finally decided, that a certain eftablifhment fhould be allowed to the Prince; and his Right Hon. Friend had brought it forward, in the way which was leaft calculated to create confufion. He had first stated the queftion of the income, and then called the attention of the Houfe to the regulation of the expenditure, and the provifion for the debt. The Houfe had already decided for an income of one hundred and twenty-five thoufand pounds. The motion then was not an application for a fum'of money for the difcharge of the debts; the only queftion was, whether the whole income fhould be left to the unlimited difpofal of the Prince, or whether the expenditure Thould be put under Vegulations, and an appropriation made with a view to the gradual extinction of the debt. No new fum was demanded; it was only withed to afcertain in what manner that which had been already given fhould be regulated and applied-a point in which all, however they might originally have differed as to the proper quantum of the income, 'might be expected to coincide. It was furely impoflible for the Houfe to refufe to comply with the requeft of the Prince of Wales to apply his income in fuch a manner by legiflative regulations as would be moft conducive to the dignity of his ftation, his perfonal comfort, and the fecurity of his creditors. If they declined their interference, it would be impofiible for him to take any fteps for the effectual liquidation of his debts; he would then be left expofed to the demands of his creditors, without any other fecurity to offer them than his life-iitereft in an annual income. He was fufprifed at drie refource, which had been pointed out by feme Hon. Gentlemen, in the affection and benevolence of his Royal Father. (A cry of Hear! Hear!) That cry, he was confident, could proceed only from a few voices, and by no means difcovered the general feeling of the Houfe on the fubject. They had repeatedly had occafion to examine the fituation of his Majesty with respect to the civil lift, particularly on occafion of granting etabliments to the Doke of Clarence, and the Duke of York'en his marriage. They might recollect that on the arrangement formerly thate, with

refect

refpect to the debts of his Royal Highnefs, part of that provifion arofe out of the liberality of his Majefty. The civil lift was indeed large, but was wholly appropriated to particular fervices, except the fum allotted for his Majefty's privy purse. The idea of fuch a refource arofe out of miferable feeling, which he was furprised that any Gentleman could entertain. He knew not (and his means of information were as good as thofe of any other Member) of the existence of any fuch fun as that which had been referred to. Befides, he would afk, with that numerous family with which his Majefty was bleffed, were there no other objects who claimed his Royal munificence and attention? The Prince of Wales was the last who might be fuppofed to have fuch a claim; he, from the fituation in which he stood, was the peculiar care of the Public. Allufion might be made to the revenues which his Majefty derived from the Electorate of Hanover. But had his Majefty no state to fupport in that quarter? Was he to rob his Hanoverian fubjects in order to pay debts contracted in this country by the Heir Apparent to the British Crown? The appeal which had been made on this fubject, he could confider as neither fair nor candid, and, as fuch, he fhould difmifs it without further obfervation; declaring on his honour, and calling any one who thought he knew the King's affairs better than him, to contradict it if he could, that his Majefty was not ir a condition to difcharge his Royal Highnefs's debts, and that therefore that refource was out of the queftion, and fhould be no more thought of or mentioned.

Mr. Montague thought it highly fit that Parliament should regard itfelf as a tutor to his Royal Highnefs the Prince, becaufe, fpeaking politically, he conceived his Royal Highness the fon of the people, and therefore he thought it proper that his affairs fhould be under the fuperintendence of Parliament. He had no doubt that it was his Royal Highnefs's difpofition to do justice; but it was poflible, if the whole income were to be under his own controul, for him to have bad advifers, and he might poftpone the liquidation of his debts, and contract new enes; and on that account alfo it was proper that Parliament fhould interfere in the management of his affairs. Under all the confideration he was able to give to this important subject, he thought himfelf bound to fupport this motion.

Mr. Powys thought there could be but one feeling in the Houfe, on the fubftance of the communication from his Poval Highnefs: It had certainly put the matter in a more agreeable light than any in which he had before been able to view it ; and he now confidered the intended limitations as no longer exacted by the rigour of Parliament, but as an act of the Houfe VOL. III. going

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going hand in hand with the Prince of Wales. That this communication would conciliate the affection of the House, and of the Public, he had no doubt; but that circumftance neither would nor ought to alter the principle upon which Gentlemen agreed to give aid to his Royal Highness. His objects in this bufinefs were two, and diftinct points, one the eftablishment, the other the provision for the debt. In his vote upon the first, he thought it his duty to concur in making a provifion liberal and ample, but that, in the application of it, he was perfuaded there fhould be no relaxation whatever from the rules of strict economy. With regard to the second point, namely, making provifion for the debt, he would afk, did the Houfe, or did they not, by adopting this motion, impofe additional burdens on the Public? It had been ftated, that this was to impofe upon the Public the payment of the debts of the Prince of Wales. He considered it as no fuch thing. This inftruction was only to enable the House hereafter to proceed upon a certain plan. He then defired the Houfe to view that plan, and to compare it with the principle on which they had proceeded already, and if they found it differ ent from that principle, then to reject it, but not otherwise; for his Majesty's meffage afked for a legiflative provifion to enable the Prince of Wales to remove his embarraffments, and the Houfe had proceeded on that fubject already. He did not doubt but that the difpofition of his Royal Highness would lead him to discharge his debts, but that was out of his power, and therefore a legislative provifion became neceflary. It was their intereft to fupport the fplendour of his Royal Highness, To be fupported with dignity was not the right only of the Prince, it was alfo the right of the nation; they were therefore interested in fupporting the dignity of his Royal Highness; but they had still a more effential intereft in the character and conduct of the Prince of Wales; and that confideration made him think it neceffary that fuch a meafure as that under deliberation fhould be adopted, and he had no doubt that under the regulations which Parliament fhould make, the people would cheerfully fupport the eftablishment of his Royal Highnefs; for the loyalty of the people of this country was not that of mere fervility and fubmiflion, but was founded on affection and regard; and he hoped that they were from that day to look forward to that happy, that auguft and aufpicious hour, when all the branches of the Royal Family would be completely united and be happy. Having faid this, he must next obferve, that he hoped there would be a fevere fcrutiny and investigation into the amount and the nature of the claims, fo that neither his Royal Highness nor the nation fhould be im

i

pofed

pofed upon with extravagant or ill-founded demands. He approved entirely of the motion before the Houfe.

Mr. Fox declared it to be his wish to feparate the different parts of this fubject, and to keep them as diftinctly from each other as poffible. The Houfe was in rather an advanced flage of this proceeding; and he could not help congratulating the House and the Public, that his Royal Highness, by his communication to the House, had acted in a manner that did him honour; he trusted he would finish a plan which he had fo worthily begun. With regard to the motion before the Houfe, he confeffed he did not know upon what principle oppofition was made to it. He did not understand the motion to be that of calling on the Public to pay the debt in any degree. It was only fimply the fetting apart fome of the income of his Royal Highnefs for the purpofe of difcharging his debt. He wifhed however, the Houfe, and the Public, not to be deceived upon this business; for although there was not a fhilling to be voted in that ftage of the bufinefs out of the pockets of the Public, yet it was clear that a request would come to call on the Public for fecurity against the contingent event of the demife of his Royal Highness. That was a thing not to be diffembled.

With regard to what was before the Houfe, he fhould vote for it, even if he had thought that the fmaller fum propofed as the income of the Prince, had been better, under all the circumftances, than the larger, becaufe it was nothing more than to enable his Royal Highnefs to fet apart fome of his income to the difcharge of his incumbrances. It might be faid, that the Prince could do this himfelf; he certainly could not, effectually, nor could the Prince, without the aid of Parliament, at all adopt a plan that would fatisfy his creditors. In this ftage of the bufines, therefore, Mr. Fox faid, he must have voted for this motion, even without any idea of inquiring whether any contingent burdens would be laid on the Public, becaufe that question was not to be governed by this at prefent; when that came it would be time enough to difcufs it, and here the bufinefs might on his part properly end; but it had been often thought, if not strictly regular, rather convenient, fometimes to make fome general obfervations on the topics which might be expected to be brought forward 'hereafter upon the matter. He had not feen any reafon for altering the opinion which he gave upon this fubject on a former occafion. The circumftance of his Royal Highnefs's happy marriage, which they all knew took place by the approbation of Parliament long after it was well known that his Royal Highness was deeply involved in debt, and in the laft difcuffion of that fubject

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the