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to the House for a proper establishment, nnd when it had been? granted, that the message had followed from the Prince, requiring the appropriationpf part of hisincome for the discharge of the debt. At any rate he must consider ministers as responsible for the former message, which contained the assurance that no second application should be made. Tiiey ought undoubtedly to have taken some means to enforce that assurance, and they were now bound te explain to the House why such means had not been taken. He wished the motion was distinctly put according to the ultimate intention of it. The Right Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer had said,, that it went only to an appropriation of income, and not to a discharge of debts, as debts—but the House would fee that it was impossible to debate it merely on that ground -r for although k was stated that the income was allowed as necessary for the maintenance of the Prince's rank, considered abstractedly from his incumbrances, that was by no means the prevailing opinion of the majority v for many voted for the larger sum, expressly with a view that a part of it should be set aside for the payment of debts: That being the cafe, the present, he said, must be considered as an application for the payment of debts. He adverted to what' Mr. Duncombe had said of the particular period, and asked whether at this time of calamity and distress, when the peasant was suffering from the want of bread, they eught to vote away the money of their constituents for the purpose of discharging debts which ought never to have been contracted? After what had passed, no reliance could be had that those provisions, which might be'made with respect to suture conduct, would be of any avail. The only way which the House had of discharging their duty, was to meet the present application with a direct refusal. His Hon. Friend had stated that by this refusal her Royal Highness would be exposed to taunts and insults. He hoped that even with the smaller income and proper economy, there would be foundsufficient means to make provision for the discharge os the debts, more especially as in such a situation the Prince would be able to come to a composition with his creditors upon much better terms than if the idea was to be held out,'that the business was to be taken up by that House. We know, said Mr. Grey, that there are great means in the possession of an Illuf'trious Personage, and it is hoped that he will be induced to ■ come forward with his assistance, both from regard to the credit of his family, and in order to maintain the respect due to royalty, which, as an Hon. Gentleman well observed, M can enly best be preserved by rendering it as little as possible oppressive prefsive to the people." These wefe'file <?t>nsi<J*rtK4ons which had irresistibly compelled him tb tile discharge of a duty, the most: painful he had ever experienced smce'be'had the honour "of A feat in that House.
Mr. Secretary Dundas find, that lie would not trouble the House farther than^o direct their Attention to a particular'point which had been Hiscusled, and to a topic which had been in* troduced in a new and extraordinary manner into debate, tt ■had already, lie snid, been finally decided, that a certain rstahlimirrent should be allowed to the Prince; and his Right Hon. Friend had brought it forward, in the way which was least, calculated to crease confuTi8n. 'He had first stated the question of the income, 'and tfien called the attention of the House to the regulation of the expenditure, and the prtfvision for the debt. The House had already decided for ah "rncrmse of one hundred and twenty-five thousand- pounds. Irhc rrie/tiori'then was not an appTJcatioh for if sbrtVof money icv the discliargc of the debts; the only question" was, whether the whole income should be. Ieft: to thd1 unlimited disposal df \"hp 'Prhjce, or whether the exp*n?lifur3e should be put under '-Veguhtion*;, and an appropriation made with a view to the gradual extinctfon of the debt. No now sum was demanded; it "was only wished to Ttscerrain in'what manner that Which had teen'already given should be regulated and applied—a point in 'which all, however .they Alight originally have differed as to the proper quantum of the iircome, 'might be expected to coincide. It was surely impossible for the House to refuse to '.cumpry with the'request of the Prince of Wales to apply his '■income in such a hiantser by legislative regulations as w<kitd "be most conducive to the dignity of his station, his -personal comfort, and the •security'of'his creditors. If they declined rheir iiffcTsrrmce, it would be impossible for him to take any steps 'for'theVfrectual liquidation of his debts; lie would th<rn be left-' exposYi to the demands ot his creditor*!, without any other security tb off r them than. h\< life-MtterefKift ton 'annual income. He was surprised nt dm- si lource, which had been poinred out bv seme Hon. Cert!-men, in the affection-and "benevolence of !,is Roy.il Father.- (A cry of Hear! Hceir !■) That cry, he was confident, could proceed only from a sew voices, and by no means discovered the general feeding of the House 'oh the subject. Thev had rerierteciiy lid occasion to examine the situation of hisiVajvIly wish r.ei«ect to the civil'lift, particularly on occasion <-f granting establishments to tiie DAe 'Of Clarence, and the Di:;>c of-Yi-rk.'-on his mari i.' ,'c.• -They lui'^ht 'recollect that on the arr.hi-crr-.'rir formerly tiiatfe1 wJ.h respect to the debts of his Royal Highness, part of that provision arose out of the liberality of his Majesty. The civil list •was indeed large, but was wholly appropriated to particular services, except the sum allotted for his Majesty's privy purse. The idea of such a resource arose out of miserable feeling, ■which .he was surprised that any Gentleman could entertain. He knew not (and his means of information were as good a3 those of any other Member) of the existence of any such sum as that which had been referred to. Besides, he would ask, with that numerous family with which his Majesty was blessed j were there no other objects who claimed his Royal munificence and attention? The Prince of Wales was the last who might be supposed to have such a claim; he, from the situation in which he stood, was the peculiar care of the Public. Allusion might be made to the revenues which his Majesty derived from the Electorate of Hanover. But had his Majesty no state to support in that quarter? Was he to rob his Hanoverian subjects in order to pay debts contracted in this country .by the Heir Apparent to the British Crown? The appeal which had been made on this subject, he could consider as neither fair nor candid, and, as such, he should dismiss it without further observation; declaring on his honour, and calling any one who thought he knew the King's affairs better than him, to contradict it if he could, that his Majesty was not in a condition to discharge his Royal1 Highness's debts, and that therefore that resource was out of the question, and should be no more thought of or mentioned.
Mr. Montague thought it highly sit that Parliament should regard itself as a tutor to his Royal Highness the Prince, because, speaking politically, he conceived his Royal Highness the son of the people, and therefore he thought it proper that his affairs should be under the superintendence of Parliament. He had no doubt that it was his Royal Highness's disposition to do justice; but it was possible, if the whole income were to be under his own controul, for him to have bad advisers, and he might postpone the liquidation of his debts, and contract new ones; and on that account also it was proper that Parliament should interfere in the management of his affairs. Under all the consideration he Was able'to give to this important subject, lie thought himselfbound to support this motion.
Mr. Powys thought there could be but one feeling in the House, on the substance of the communication from his P oval Highness: It had certainly put the matter in a more agreeable light than any in which he had before bf.en able to view it; and he now considered the intended limitations as no longer exacted by the rigour of Parliament, but as an- act of the House
going hand in hand with the Prince of Wales. That this communication would conciliate the affection of the House* and of the Public, he had no doubt; but that circumstance neither would nor ought to alter the principle upon which Gentlemen agreed to give aid to his Royal Highness.- His objects in this business.were two, and distinct points, one the establishment, the other the provision for the debt. In his vote upon the first, he thought it his duty to concur in making a provision liberal and ample, but that, in the application of it, he was persuaded there should be no relaxation whatever from the rules of strict economy. With regard to the second point, namely, making provision for the debt,, he would ask, did the House, or did they not, by adopting this motion, impose additional burdens on the Public? It had been stated, that this was to impose upon the Public the payment of the debts of the Prince of Wales. He considered it as no such thing' This instruction was only to enable the House hereafter to proceed upon a certain plan. He then desired the House to view that plan, and to compare it with the principle 00 ■which they had proceeded already, and if they found it differ* ent from that principle, then to reject it, but hot otherwise; sot his Majesty's message asked for a legislative provision to enable the Prince of Wales to remove his embarrassments, and the House had proceeded on that subject already. He did not doubt but that the disposition of his Royal Highness would lead him to discharge his debts, but that was out of his power, and therefore a legislative provision became necessary. It *** their interest to support the splendour of his Royal Highness To be supported with dignity was not the right only of the Prince, it was also the right os the nation; they were therefore interested in supporting the dignity of his Royal Highness; but they had still a more essential interest in the character and conduct of the Prince of Wales y and that consideration made him think it necessary that such a measure as that under deliberation should be adopted, and he had no doubt that under the regulations which Parliament should make, the people would cheerfully support the establishment of his Roy^rt High' ness; for the loyalty of the people of this country was not that of mere servility and submission, but was founded on affection and regard ; and he hoped that they were from that day to look forward to that happy, that august and auspicious hour> when all the branches of the Royal Family would be completely united and be happy. Having said this, he must nexj observe, that he hoped there would be a severe scrutiny and investigation into the amount and the nature of the claims w that neither his Royal Highness nor the nation should be in> posed upon with extravagant or ill-sounded demands. He apr proved entirely of the motion before the House.
Mr. Fox declared it to be his wish to separate the different parts of this subject, and to keep them as distinctly from each other as possible. The House was in rather an advanced stage of this proceeding; and he could not help congratulating the House and the Public, that his Royal Highness, by his communication to the House, had acted in a manner that did him honour; he trusted he would finish a plan which he had so worthily begun. "With regard to the motion before the House, he confessed he did not know upon what principle opposition was made to it. He did not understand the motion to Be that of calling on the Public to pny the debt in any degree. It was only simply the setting apart some of the income of his Royal Highness for the purpose of discharging his debt. He wished however, the House, and the Public, not to be deceived upon this business -, for although there was not a shilling to be voted in that stage of the business out of the pockets of the Public, yet it was clear that a request would come to call on the Public for security against the contingent event os the demise of his Royal Highness. That was a thing not to be dissembled.
With regard to what was before the House, he should vote for it, even if he had thought that the smaller sum proposed as the income of the Prince, had been better, under all the circumstances, than the larger, because it was nothing more than to enable his Royal Highness to set apart some of his income to the discharge of his incumbrances. It might be said, that the Prince could do this himself; he certainly could not, essectually, nor could the Prince, without the aid of Parliament, at all adopt a plan that would satisfy his creditors. In this stage of the busindse, therefore, Mr. Fox laid, he must' have voted for this motion, even without any idea of inquiring whether any contingent burdens would be laid on the Public, because that question was hot.to be governed by this al present; when' that came it would be time enough to discuss it, and here the business might on his part properly end; but it had been often thought, if not strictly regular, rather convenient, some-* times to make some general observations on the topics which' rrjight be expected to be brought forward 'hereafter upon the matter. He had not seen any reason for altering the opinion which he gave upon this subject on a former occasion. The circumstance of his Royal Highncss/s happy marriage, which they all knew took place by the approbation of Parliament long after it wfts well known that his Royal Highness, was deeply involved in debt, and in the last discussion of fhat subject
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