Thornton, Mr. M. A. Taylor, and others took part; after which a divifion ensued, For receiving the claufe -Majority 90 7 83 Mr. Dent moved, that there fhould be laid on the table a copy of the minutes of the Committee appointed to inquire into the abuses of franking in the public offices.-Ordered. Mr. Ryder gave notice that he fhould the next day move for leave to bring in a Bill granting certain relief to Woolcombers, &c. MESSAGE FROM THE PRINCE OF WALES. Mr. Anftruther (Solicitor General to his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, as Duke of Cornwall) acquainted the Houfe, that the Prince of Wales, while the question relative to his establishment was under the confideration of the Houfe of Commons, had thought the proper conduct for him to obferve was, to avoid exprefling any opinion or with upon the fubject; fully fenfible that the liberality and wifdom of Parliament would make fuch arrangements, as fhould be beft fuited to the fituation of his affairs, the dignity of the Royal Family, and the intereft of the Public. But having underftood, that it was the defire of many refpe@able persons that his wishes and opinions upon the fubject should be known, his Royal Highness had authorised him to affure the House, that he is extremely defirous that fuch regulations may be adopted, as to the wifdom of Parliament fhall feem most expedient and advifable, for the purpose of eftablishing order and regularity in the expenditure of his income, and to prevent the incurring of debt in future. And at the fame time, his Royal Highnefs had authorifed him further to exprefs his earneft defire, that the Houfe will appropriate fuch part of the income which they may intend to allot to him, to the liquidation of the debts with which he is embarraffed, as, under all the prefent circumftances, fhall feem to the wisdom and prudence of the Houfe moft expedient and advisable; fully fenfible that however large that appropriation may be, the Houfe will be guided folely by the confideration of what shall appear to them the moft conducive to his honour, and the intereft of the Public. The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, that in confequence of the communication which had just been made to the House, he rofe with fentiments of much lefs anxiety and much greater I fatif fatisfaction than he had experienced in any former part of this tranfaction. In bringing forward this bufinefs, which he had reafon to hope would have been in itself highly fatiffactory, but which peculiar circumftances had rendered extremely painful, he had not however been without fome degree of confolation. He had fatisfaction in contemplating the principles which had given rife to the difficulties attendant on the tranfaction. He obferved with pleasure, that a Parliament which had never failed in any expreflion of loyalty to their Sovereign, or attachment to his family, which had never been wanting in difcovering a proper fpirit of liberality, when the occafion called for it, had no lefs in the present instance fhewn a degree of jealoufy, care, and circumfpection, when a demand was made upon the pockets of their constituents, attended with fome circumstances which they could not alto-gether approve. He had no lefs fatisfaction in obferving that the Illuftrious Perfonage himself was impreffed with a juft, fenfe of that line of conduct, which regard to his character and fituation required him to purfue, and he trufted that the House had that day received an earneft of the future difpofitions of his Royal Highness, and of that regard to the welfare of the people, which would diftinguifh him in the exalted fituation to which he one day might be called. Under that impreffion, he hoped that there would be little difference of opinion as to the propofition which he fhould fubmit to the Houfe. The inftruction which he meant to move went precifely to the two objects to which his Hon. and Learned Friend had referred in the communication from his Royal Highnefs-the regulation of the expenditure of his houfe, hold, and the appropriation of part of the income for the discharge of debt. It was certainly fatisfactory to the Houfe to know that his Royal Highnefs was perfectly difpofed to concur in whatever arrangements the wifdom of Parliament might adopt with refpect to thefe two objects. He hoped, that by this communication every difficulty would be confiderably leffened, though it might not perhaps be entirely removed, as fome Members, however difpofed to fupport the credit and dignity of the Prince by the grant of a proper eftablishment, had expreffed their opinion that no notice ought to be taken of the debts at all. The question, he would remark at prefent, was not, what part of the income fhould be appropriated to the payment of debt, nor did the inftruction he had now to propofe go fo much as to narrow the amount even of the largest fum that had been fuggefted for that purpofe. The only queftion was, 3 C2 whether whether the aid of Parliament ought to be given to his Royal Highness by adepting legiflative regulations for the discharge . of debts, which it was admitted on all hands ought never to have been contracted? Without any retrofpect to the paft, over which he wished to draw a veil, he appealed to the fair and candid feelings of the Houfe, whether they could refufe to adopt a measure fo neceflary for the character and credit of his Royal Highnefs, fo intimately connected with his perfonal comfort and the fplendour of his rank? Could they refufe to concur with his Royal Highnefs in appropriating a large part out of, the income allotted him, in order to relieve him from the embarraiment of debts? The business; appeared to him to rcft upon fo plain a propofition, and be in itself so self-evident, that, referving all particular details for future difcuffion, he truled that what he had now to propofe would.. meet the almost unanimous concurrence of the Houfe. The propofition only went to give inftructions to thofe Gentlemen who were to be appointed to prepare the Bill, to make a cer-. tain appropriation, and to give them authority to frame a claufe, the blanks of which could afterwards be filled by the Houfe in Committee. To the end of thofe two objects he moved, "That it be an inftruction to the Gentlemen who are appointed to prepar and bring in a Bill for erabling Iris Majefy to grast a yearly fun or fums of money, out of the confolidated fund, towards providing for the eflablifhinent of their Royal Highnects the Prince and Princess of Wales; that they do make provifion in the far-Lait for etablishing a regular-and punctual order of payment in the Prince's fatture expenditure, and for guarding against his mcurring debts in fatare; and alfo for appropriating a proportion of the Prince's annual income towards the gradual difcharge of the incumbrances to which his Royal Highness is now fubje&t." Mr. Duncombe ftated, that he was one of thofe who had voted for the inferior fum. With whatever concern he might rife to obftruct any proceeding that profefled as its object the cafe and comfort of his Royal Highrefs, he confidered the call of duty as paramount to all other conâderations. It was the duty of the reprefentatives of the British nation to speak, when the occafion warranted, with a proper boldness, to perfons even in the moft exalted ftation. Under this imprallion he muft fay, that Parli enent could noty consently with their duty to their conftituents, or with that inviolable regard which they owed to truth and fidelity, after the folemn af furances they had received on a former cocafion, confent a fecond time to pay the debts of the Prince of Wales. Thefe afurances affurances. he could not tamely confent to give up; he confidered them as engagements to the people of England, which he ought not to forfeit. He remarked, that at a period fuch as the prefent, there attached particular duties to a Prince, which regard to the welfare of the people indifpenfibly called upon him to fulfil. ...At a time (faid Mr. Duncombe) when the comforts and conveniencies of life are wanting to the middle clafies of fociety, when the poor are fcarcely fupplied even with common necllaries, and when the profpect of a dearth becomes every day among alarming, I cannot liften to idle claims of fplendour and magnificence; I trust that at fuch a time the benevolent feelings of his, Royal Highnefs, will difpofe him rather to fympathize with the niftrefs of the lower orders, and to facrilice fomething, for their relief, than to form felfish and extravagant pretentions. There is another confideration which deferves to be attended to. In these distempered times, when the wildelt principles of democracy are abroad, founded on arguments drawn from new fyftems of falfe philofophy, let us beware how, by an unneceffary or wanton profusion of the public money;, we furnish the favourers of wild and dangerous innovations with a colour and plaufibility for, their argu ments. As a friend to, the hereditary monarchy, as an, adhe rent to the family on the throne, I feel myself called upon to relift the motion. Let us recollect that there are other braiches of the Royal Family. If, after the affurance we received, we again confent to pay the debts of his Royal Highness, we fhall eftablish a precedent, of which we cannot tell to what purpofe it may be applied, or to what extent it may be carried. I do not mean to fay that the debts ought not to be paid, but I look to other refources for that purpose; I look firft to the juftice of his Royal Highness, to make pro vifion for the payment of thofe debts that shall be proved to be just; many of them I apprehend do not come under that defcription: I look to his future economy in the regulation of his houfehold; and lastly I look to the alliance which he may derive from the well-known munificence of his Royal Father. As the idea of a temporary retirement has been fuggefted, I have only to remark, that from fuch a retire, ment his Royal Highness might reap great advantage in fetfling his affairs, and be again enabled to emerge with fresh Splendour. Retirement, it has been remarked, is the nurse of reflection; by its influence his Royal Highnefs, might be enabled to confirm thofe refolutions which he has expressed in his communication to the Houfe, and to return again into public life fortified against future error, and qualified for the important duties of that high station which he may one day be called upon to fill." Mr. Curwen expreffed his fatisfaction at the meffage which had been received from his Royal Highness, and which he conceived would produce the most favourable impreffion in the country. He hoped that it would prove on the part of the Prince an earneft of his future attention to the happiness of the country, which was fo effentially connected with his own intereft. He remarked the cruelty that would be attached to the fituation of his illuftrious Confort, if, by a refufal of that Houfe to make any provifion for the debts, fhe was left exposed to the taunts and infults of creditors. He wished that his Royal Highnefs might be put in a fituation to obtain respect, and to deferve it; he had therefore voted for the larger income with a view to the application of a confiderable part of it to the difcharge of the debts. He regretted that the House had as yet received no communication on the fubject from his Majefty, whom both from his paternal relation to the Illuftrious Perfonage, whofe fituation was the object of difcuffion, and from the ftill higher character in which he stood as father of the country, he had expected, would have come forward on the occafion, to promote the eafe, the comfort, the splendour, and the happinefs of his fon. He had hoped that he would have done fomething, and fomething confiderable; in the way of extricating the Prince from his difficulties. As the bufinefs now flood, even if the larger fum fhould be applied (fixty-five thousand pounds, and the revenues of the Dutchy of Cornwall), it would require a period of ten years before the whole debt could be liquidated; during all this time the creditors of his Royal Highnefs muft remain under a degree of constraint and embarraffment. Mr. Grey faid, that though he had undoubtedly a claim to the most candid interpretation of his motives, he was happy that in the part which his duty fhould compel him to take in the prefent difcuffion, he had been preceded by a respectable Gentleman (Mr. Duncombe) on the other fide of the House. 'Every perfon must concur in the fatisfaction which had been expreffed at the meffage delivered by the authority of his Royal Highness. He was happy to receive it, not as a measure taken upon the fpur of the occafion, but as the fincere expreffion of his feelings, witl. refpect to the House; he wished indeed that the whole grace of the tranfaction had belonged to his Royal Highnefs; that it had not previously been fuggefted from any other quarter; that minifters had first come to. |