fecondly, for the liquidation of thofe debts already contracted, In one circumftance he confeffed that he had experienced fome degree of difappointment; he had hoped that the notice. given of the Bill intended to be brought in would have produced fome communication to the Houfe, from the illuftrious Perfonage most immediately interested in the tranfaction. Mr. Grey profeffed himself still of his former opinion, that no notice ought to be taken of the debts, and that every application for their payment fhould be refifted. He confidered a pofitive refufal as the only aufwer which ought to be given to a propofition for the payment of debts which never fhould have been contracted. To thofe, however, who thought otherwife, he could not help remarking, that the question was unfairly put. It was ftated, that they were only called upon to vote for fuch a fum as, abtractedly confidered, was adequate to the purposes of a proper establishment for the Prince of Wales, while at the fame time it was fuggefted, that they ought to vote for the particular fum, with a view to the portion to be annually appropriated for the payment of debts. Let the Houfe then be undeceived; let them not, by this unfair mode of blending the question, be led away with the idea, that they were only voting a proper establishment, while they are in fact called upon for the payment of debts. If the honour of the Royal Family had been confulted, a different proceeding would, in his opinion, have been adopted. The minister fhould, in the first inftance, have come to the House for a proper eftablishment, and then an exprefs meflage might have been brought down from his Majefty, with the confent of the Prince, praying for relief with refpect to the debts which had been unfortunately contracted. This would have been much better than the prefent mode of proceeding, which had the ig nominious appearance of tying down the Prince without his own content. The whole of the transaction, however, as it stood with respect to the debts, he must again ftate, met with his direct difapprobation. Mr. Curwen faid, that he confidered the notice that had been given by the Right Hon. Gentleman to be perfectly fair. He had voted for the larger fum, meaning to bring forward a propofition that the whole of the augmentation, 65,000l. fhould be applied to the liquidation of the debts. The remaining 60,000l. he fhould leave the Prince to difpofe of as he pleafed, without any limitation as to his not contracting fur ther. He trufled that his Royal Highness underfood too well the fenfe of the Houfe with refpect to the prefent tranfaction, to incur the risk of fuch a ftep in future. If he should, however, again prefume to run in debt, the confequences might be fuch fuch as it would neither be pleasant for that Houfe to take, nor for him to have taken. The Chancellor of the Exchequer remarked, that the prefent converfation was not ftrictly in order. By the mode of proceeding which he had adopted, he wished the Houfe to difcufs firft, what income ought to be given to the Prince, and next what provision should be fet apart out of that income, for the liquidation of debt. He wifhed them to difpofe of the general question, in order that they might come to the particular difcuffion in the Committee. By the notice which he had given, he did not intend that on Monday next they should difcufs what appropriation fhould be made for the payment of debt, but only whether there fhould be any appropriation at all. A motion was made, that Mr. Charles Yorke have leave to go out of town on public affairs, which was explained to be to attend his duty as a field officer. After fome conversation, in which it was stated that every regiment had three field officers, any one of whom was equivalent to the discharge of the neceflary duty, the Houfe divided, For the motion 52 59 A motion was then made, that Captain Berkeley have leave to go out of town, being ordered to join his fhip. The cafe of a naval officer being understood to be an exception to the principle adopted in the former decifion, the motion, after fome converfation, was agreed to. A motion was made, that no motion be made for Members to go out of town, except between the hours of four and fiveOrdered. Mr. Secretary Dundas brought down a copy of General Myer's affidavit.-Ordered to be laid on the table. Mr. Dundas again deferred his India Budget to Monday the 8th of June, ftating at the fame time, that if any Gentleman had occafion for that day, he was perfectly ready to give it up. Captain Berkeley moved for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent the felling of ale without licences.-Granted. IMPERIAL LOAN. The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, that the House refolve itfelf into a Committee of the whole Houfe, on the Convention between his Majefty and the Emperor. The Speaker having left the chair, The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, that important as he felt this measure to be, as many of the confiderations connectVOL. III. 3 B ed ed with it had been involved in other difcuffions, and even in that which had last taken place, he should not have occafion to trouble the House much at length. It did not occur to him to be neceffary to fay any thing at prefent as to the propriety and reafonableness of availing ourfelves of every means of afliftance for the vigorous profecution of the conteft in which we were engaged, or as to the expediency of fecuring to ourselves, in the way propofed by this convention, the co-operation of fo great a military power as the Emperor. The House had already decided on thofe points. They had, however, reserved to themselves, when the conditions fhould be laid before them, to judge both as to the fecurity offered for the affistance, to the extent to which it had been ftipulated, and for the repayment of the fums advanced. When the meffage was originally brought down, it was doubtful whether, with a view to a larger fum, ftill more extenfive co-operation might not have been required than that which was now fixed. The advances that had been already made, went to the exceedings above the four millions; they amounted to about 550,000l. From the general vote of the Houfe on the former occafion, he collected that this fum would fufficiently meet their approbation. Every precaution had been taken that could tend to render the tranfaction fafe or advantageous to us. As to the fecurity for repayment, he stated it to be-in the first place, a general engagement to pay-next, a mortgage on the Emperor's hereditary revenues, to be recovered according to the laws of that country, and a depofit of actions on the Bank of Vienna. In cafe of non-payment, the fum to be made good by this country. But the Committee would carry along with them that we were guarantees for only a half-yearly dividend on the accidental failure of payment. A confiderable delay had taken place, which had been full of anxiety to thofe concerned in the fpeculation, as they were obliged to have their money in readiness. Gentlemen on the other fide had formerly stated, that the tranfaction did not prefent a very advantageous profpect to the fubfcribers. Fortunately, however, the reverse was the cafe, and he had no doubt that Gentlemen would rejoice in the circumftance, both as a fymptom of the flourishing state of public credit, and as it was fair that those who had run the rifk fhould likewife reap the advantage of any change that had taken place. With refpect to the fubfcribers, therefore, he fhould confider that the difcuffion ftood precifely on the fame footing as formerly. He did not confider it neceffary for him to fay more, except he fhould have occafion to add any thing in the way of explanation. He concluded with moving, "Refolved, "Refolved, that it is the opinion of this Committee, that provifion fhould be made for guaranteeing the payment of the dividend of 4,600,000l. provided by the Convention between his Imperial Majefty and the King of Great Britain, of the 4th of May 1795." Mr. Fox faid, he fhould not on the prefent occafion go at large into the general arguments on the fuppofed policy of the fubject before the Committee, because there was not that attendance which he thought the matter demanded. It was therefore exceedingly probable that he fhould call the attention of the House to it at a future period, if he should find it attended to in the manner which a thing fo very serious and extraordinary in his opinion deferved; however, he could not help making fome obfervations upon it then. When this bufinefs was before the Houfe on a former day, they were told that four millions were to be granted to the Emperor on condition of his providing two hundred thoufand men for the common caufe, as it was termed; but that if he fhould provide a larger army, it was faid that there fhould be no objection on our part to granting him the fum of fix millions; and it was faid, that the Emperor had received fome of this money in part of the whole loan; and at that time it was not known how the propofals from London would be accepted at Vienna. The fact had at length turned out, that he was to receive four millions fix hundred thousand pounds over and above the fums which had been already advanced to him. What was the confequence of this? Did the Emperor undertake to furnish more than the two hundred thousand men ? No fuch thing; and it appeared that the Emperor had never agreed to what had been stated to the Houfe by the minifter. Perhaps it was not criminal on the part of our Government to advance the money which the Emperor had actually received; but he was fure that the Houfe of Commons ought to have more and better information than the minifter had been pleafed to give them, before they agreed to a propofition which was both dangerous and alarming. There was a rumour that this faithful ally of ours had acted in a manner not very confiftent with the character which had been given him; if this be true, we were about to proceed upon very important bufinefs indeed, without the leaft fecurity that we fhould not be deceived. It had been faid, that when the British and the allied armies were in a fituation of the greatest peril, and when a delay of only twenty-four hours of the Auftrians would have been effential, that delay had been refufed by his Imperial Majefty; and the filence of the minifter upon that fubject made Mr. Fox think that this rumour was 3 B 2 well well founded. We had continued to pay the Emperor one hundred thousand pounds a month after he had deserted us. When an inquiry was propofed to be made into this business, they were told there were fome difficulties in the way of an explanation. He would afk, was that an answer to a House of Commons called upon to vote away by millions the public money? It was objected to by many, and by him particularly, on the difcuffion of the Pruilian treaty, that we should pay our money in fuch large fums without having an opportunity of knowing correctly how former engagements had been fulfilled. The Houfe was told they could not have any precife information, because the regular returns of the operations of the armies had not been made. This was, in his opinion, a fcandalous omiffion. He difapproved of the Pruffian treaty; but that treaty contained an article, by which they were entitled to call for an account, but which they never knew, becaufe no inquiry had been inflituted. In the present instance there was no fuch power, in point of fact, and yet they had been careful to preferve the appearance of it. If, in one month, the Emperor fhould fail in the performance of his engagement, they might have correct information, but they had no means to prevent that failure. It had been stated, that we were not answerable for the whole amount of the loan, if the Emperor fhould fail; we were anfwerable only for the dividends from time to time, as the failure fhould occur. He really thought this curious: He could not help fmiling at it, although he had heard that ignorance is apt to fmile. He was really too ftupid to fee the diftinction between being anfwera. ble for the whole fum, and paying for ever the dividends that fhall become due upon it. The diftinction between that and paying a fum of money he did not comprehend. He wifhed. to know upon what our fecurity refted with regard to this loan. He fhould be anfwered, no doubt, on the punctuality of the payments of the Emperor; upon that he withed for fome explanation, before the Houfe proceeded further in this bufinefs. There were fome, and he confefied he was one of that number, who had doubts concerning this punctuality, as well as to the faith of the military engagements of his Imperial Majefty; and thefe were points which required a good deal of explanation. Mr. Fox read an extract of a letter from a perfon at Vienna to his correfpondent here, flating that the Court of Vienna had come to a refolution not to pay dividends of old loans to any perfons refident in France; to another refolution, not to pay any perfons who had not enigrated from France-that was to fay, the Emperor would not pay, except where emigration was proved. Sums of money were due to a reli |