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was not putting the Public to one penny of expence, becaufe the value of the reverfion would still be at the difpofal of the Public.

Mr. Yorke faid, he could not anfwer to his conftituents for voting more than 100,000l. Any propofition for paying the debts, ought to form a diftinct confideration.

Mr. Powys agreed in general with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but hoped that what Mr. Fox had said, with refpect to the fale of the Dutchy, would be very feriously attended to. He faid, in propofing limitations or restrictions upon the income to be granted to his Royal Highnefs, he hoped he fhould not be fufpected of a want of proper refpect for that Illuftrious Perfonage; but this propofition came on under circumstances totally unprecedented. In former cafes, where a provifion was made for a Prince of Wales, the revenue was paid out of the civil lift, and therefore Parliament had no right to impofe reftrictions; but in the prefent intance, the Parliament were voting the public money, and to do it with jealousy was their duty.

Mr. Buxton begged to be heard a moment; (the House was very clamorous for the question.) He only wifhed to afk, whether the propofition relative to the Dutchy of Cornwall would be acceded to. If it were to be fold, he should vote far the larger fum of 125,000l., but if it were not, he most certainly would give his fupport to the amendment.

General Smith was for a very liberal allowance, which he faid would be nothing without paying the debts. The income of the Dutchy of Cornwall having been spent by the Public during the Prince's minority, ought to be made good to him by the Public. He fhould not therefore feel the lightest hefitation to give his vote for the larger fum propofed: He fhould even have had no objection if the fum had been still larger. He wifhed the House to take into their confideration the enormous expences which a Prince of Wales was neceffarily compelled. to incur, which private men, however large their fortune, were exempt from. At the prefent period, the great increase of price in every article, rendered it proper for the Houfe to make fuch a fair increafe of revenue as would put his Royal Highness upon an equality with his predeceffors. He contended, that the reason why his Royal Highness was fo involv ed at present was, that when his establishment was first fixcil, it was too fmall This compelled him to run in debt, and eaufed all his fubfequent perplexities.

"Sir William Pulteney was for relieving the Prince from his debts, but in fuch a way as that the Public might fee what they were doing, and for making it impoflibles that any of the

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Royal Family should contract debts in future. He would vote for the fmaller fum, referving the debis for future confideration.

Mr. Efte lamented the question had been brought on in the manner it was. The Houfe had been told they were not to take into confideration the payment of the debts on that evening, and yet an eftablishment had been proposed, a great part of which it had been declared was intended to be appropriated towards the difcharge of the debt.

Mr. Banks was decidedly of opinion that the plan of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for liquidating the Prince's debts in twenty-seven years was, in a great meafure, nugatory, and put the rifk ultimately on the Public to pay them. He was therefore for adopting Mr. Fox's plan of applying 65,000l. together with the profits of the Dutchy of Cornwall, to wards this defireable end, which would effect it in a few years.

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Mr. Maurice Robinson faid a few words; but the cry of Question! Question! was so loud that it was impoffible to hear his fpeech.

Mr. T. Coke and General Macleod approved of Mr. Fox's plan.

Mr. M. A. Taylor faid he should vote for the larger fum. If a commiflion were appointed to inquire into the debts, they might be reduced from 600,000l. to 400,000l. He preferred paying them as Mr. Fox propofed.

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Mr. Huffey faid, that while a fund was fuffered to go to wafte that might be made productive, he should oppofe taking money from any other.

Mr. R. Smith was for the amendment. He thought a plan. for liquidating the debts in twenty-feven years, was no plan at all; and approved of Mr. Fox's propofition.

The Committee divided on Mr. Grey's amendment:

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Mr. Huffey then moved, that the Chairman do now leave the chair (a form of oppofing the main queftion without giving it a direct negative); upon which the Committee divided:

Ayes
Noes

Ayes
Noes

The Committee then divided on the main question:

99. 248

241

100

The original refolution was then put and carried.:

On the other refolutions, or amendments moved to them, two more divifions took place; but ftrangers were not ad

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mitted.

mitted. The numbers on the two divifions were 99 to 248, and 100 to 241.

The Speaker having refumed the chair, the report was ordered to be received the next day.

Mr. Secretary Dundas prefented the papers relative to the conduct of Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis in the West Indies.

Mr. Grey moved that the papers be printed; which was ordered.

Mr. Grey added, that as the feffion was far advanced, if the Hon. Gentleman who had moved for this inquiry, meant to found any motion upon the papers then before the Houfe, he hoped he would lofe no time in bringing it forward.

Mr. Barbam faid he meant to take an early opportunity of bringing forward a motion.

Adjourned at half an hour paft twelve.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

FRIDAY, May 15.

Received feveral Bills from the Commons, and fome papers from the India House.

Read a third time and paffed the several Bills on the New Taxes.

Adjourned to Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

FRIDAY, May 15.

SIR CHARLES GREY AND SIR JOHN JERVIS.

Mr. Barham gave notice, that on Thursday fe'nnight he would make a motion on the papers relative to the conduct of Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis during their com mand in the West Indies.

Mr. Grey expreffed -his furprise that the Hon. Gentleman should not have named an earlier day for his motion. The papers had been laid on the table the preceding day, and would be printed about the middle of the week. The Hon. Gentleman was perfectly apprized of their contents, for he had had the fame papers upon which he was to found his motion for inquiry, already fix months in his poffeffion. Was it fair in the Hon. Gentleman to bring forward his motion at

so advanced a period of the feffion, as would render it impos fible for the House to go fully into the inquiry?

Mr. Barbam faid, that at prefent, Thurfday fe'nnight was, the first open day. He vindicated himself from the charge of delay, for reafons which he had formerly affigned. As to the advanced period of the feffion, he, as well as the Hon. Gentleman, did not expect that any inquiry would be granted.

Mr. Grey faid, that if the Hon. Gentleman made out any charge which demanded inquiry, he did hope that an inquiry would take place. But if the Hon. Gentleman brought for ward his motion at a time that he conceived an inquiry would not be granted, he left to him and to the House to determine on the fairness of fuch a proceeding.

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PRINCE OF WALES'S ESTABLISHMENT AND DEBTS.

Mr. Steele brought up the Report of the refolutions of the Committee on his Majefty's Meffage, relative to an establishment for his Royal Highnefs the Prince of Wales, on which a defultory converfation took place.

Mr. M. A. Taylor rofe to give his reafons why he had the preceding night voted for the larger fum; it was because he was in hopes that the meafure for effecting it, propofed by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Fox) would have been adopted; But he affured the Houfe, that he did not vote for the fum of an hundred and twenty-five thousand pounds on the idea of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the debts of the Prince were to be paid off by fo very flow degrees as to leave fome of them exifting for fo long a time as twenty-feven years. This, he faid, could not be confidered as relieving the Prince, or rendering his fituation more easy; it was not relieving him in the manner Parliament should do; for it only held out the name of relief, while it left him 'nearly as much embarraffed as ever.

He wifhed to throw out for confideration, notwithstanding the unpopularity attached to it, whether it would not be better for the Prince and for the Public too, to have the debt put in a way of immediate liquidation, the various items being first fubmitted to the investigation of Commiflioners to be appointed by Parliament; for he thought it very likely, that, if fairly afcertained, they would not amount to the fum given in. Most of the Gentlemen in that Houfe, he faid, were well acquainted with the nature of those things, and could tell how borrowed money was to be paid, and how articles got on credit were always charged, particularly to a perfon of the Prince's rank. Mr. Taylor enlarged upon the extortion

and

and frauds to which the Prince was fubject, and exemplified it by the recital of a matter of fact which had come within his own immediate knowledge.-" A friend of his, caught with the elegance of a pair of buckles in a certain fhop, went in to buy them; the fhopkeeper demanded four guineas and a half, which the gentleman thinking an exorbitant price, declined giving; but ftill retaining a wifh for the buckles, returned in a few days and afked for them, when, to his furprise, he was informed that the Prince of Wales had taken a liking to, and fent for them, and that he (the fhopkeeper) had let his Royal Highness have them for fifteen guineas." It was therefore, Mr. Taylor contended, for the intereft of the Prince and the Public, to afcertain the extent, the nature, and the grounds of the debts; and that being done, the Parliament fhould pay them, and make the Prince an allowance-fufficiently fplendid, but not fo fplendid as they would, if no fuch incumbrances exifted. As for the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt), it would not extri cate' him, and he would have again to submit fimilar demands to Parliament.

Colonel Stanley faid, that if he had been prefent the preceding night, he would have voted for the fmaller fum, because he conceived that a profufe expenditure of the public money would do more mischief than all the feditious pamphlets that had been published for feven years paft.

Mr. Curwen gave notice, that he fhould follow up on a future day what he had faid the preceding night, and propose that the whole of the fixty-five thoufand pounds fhould be applied to the liquidation of the Prince's debts. And one reafon of his doing this was, that he was certain many of the creditors would take less than their demand if they were offered prompt payment.

Mr. Joliffe faid, that he fhould feel it a duty he owed to himself and to the Public, to ftate the reafons that induced him to vote for the fum of one hundred and twenty-five thousand pounds, as the establishment of the Prince of Wales. That a Prince of Wales may live with comfort, as well as fome splendour, on half that fum, is certain; that he may live with more comfort, because with lefs fplendour, even on a quarter of that fum, is true; but as the House and the Public have thought it neceffary that any Prince of Wales fhould have at least one hundred thousand pounds a year over and above the revenues of the Dutchy of Cornwall, he was aftonished that there could be a moment's haggling, or a fyllable of difpute, about the addition of twenty-five thoufand pounds to a Prince of the many and known excellencies of

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