But was that his fault, or was it the fault of the Commanders in the West Indies ?-Certainly not. If there was to be an inquiry, would it not be an hardfhip on thefe Commanders to be deprived of the advantage of the teftimony of these officers, whofe evidence was fo effential? He fhould have imagined that if Gentlemen had the feeling they ought to have for the character of officers who had been fifty years in the fervice, and whofe honour was hitherto without a stain, they would not have been fo forward in making charges, as it were, by implication. A memorial was prefented by Mr. Thellufon against the conduct of thefe officers in the West Indies. Who that Mr. Thellufon was, he did not know, but his memorial breathed nothing but direct and pofitive falfehood: This he was ready to prove at the bar of that House, if the inquiry was inftituted. He fhould prove alfo every thing that was neceffary to justify Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis in their conduct in the West Indies-that they had merited and received the thanks of the inhabitants for what they did. He entered into a detailed account of the manner in which the captured iflands in the West Indies had been treated by Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis-that they were taken, as the Secretary of State himfelf had ftated, by force of arms; and that therefore, by the law of nations, they were liable to be put under contribution as they had been. And further, that it was the duty of thefe Commanders to act as they had done; that they were bound to do fo by the rules of war, for his Majefty and his forces. The very Proclamation which had been complained of fo much, was not even acted upon. They gave up the idea of enforcing it even before orders came to that effect from home, under the hand of the Duke of Portland, as Secretary of State.

As to what was ftated in letters from the Weft Indies, with refpect to the danger of the islands, it could-not be attributed juflly to the Proclamation, but to the opinion of the in habitants, that they were not fufliciently protected from external attack, or internal commotions. Nothing detailed in those letters ought to have much attention paid to them; he, however, fhould wish them to inquire into the whole, although he risked not his own honour, but the honour of those who were dearer to him, of thofe who had every claim upon his gratitude and feelings. Though there were no proofs of the violence and plunder which had been attributed to thofe Commanders, there were fufficient proofs of the contrary; not only the inhabitants fhewed every teftimony of regret on their leaving the country, but fince their return, letters from

all

all quarters had been received replete with teftimonies of gratitude for their mild adminiftration and good conduct during their refidence on the islands.

Mr. Grey read a letter from a Gentleman, who had been left. in an official fituation in one of the captured islands, to Sir Charles Grey, immediately preceding his intended departure for England, in which he pays the higheft compliments to the clemency, the integrity, the honour, and the humanity of the Commander in Chief of his Majefty's land forces, and attributes to him not only the conqueft of the ifland, under the aufpices of his valour, but the keeping it afterward, by means of his prudence and virtue, and thofe conciliatory measures which he had caused to be adopted. After reciting all the circumftances of these captures, and making many obfervations upon them, he faid, he wished and he knew that Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis wifhed, as much as any man in that House, that an inquiry fhould take place; but that it fhould be a full and fair inquiry, for which purpofe a great number of living witneffes must be examined, and many points of evidence would be neceffary, which he did not fee how offcially they could be laid before the Houfe.

Mr. Thellufon afirmed upon the authority of a near relation in the town of St. Peter's, that a deputation had been fent to General Dundas, who promifed them inviolability, and that in confequence at twelve o'clock at night, no gun was fired, nor was the Proclamation acted upon. Yet notwithstanding, this relation had an hundred hogfheads of fugar afterwards confifcated.

Mr. Lufhington faid, he would not have rifen if it had not been infinuated that the whole proceedings against the Gentlemen in question were incited by calumny. He denied that there was any calumny intended to be caft on the Commanders in the West Indies, by the conduct of the West India planters, or by the proceedings which they inftituted upon that fubject. He stated what had paffed at the meeting of merchants where he attended, and he wished that their opinions might be confirmed by his Majefty's Advocate General, and the law officers of the Crown, who had, he understood, delivered their fentiments in private, and then a full opportu nity might be given for explanation. The object of the Weft India merchants was, to fupport the character of the British nation against the dangerous principle contained in the Proclamation of Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis. The planters and West India merchants knew that the profperity of this country depended upon its commerce; that without a due regar 1 to the protection of private property, commerce would be at

an end; that if private property was not to be confidered as facred, the very bafis of our conftitution would be deftroyed. The Proclamation of Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis contained a principle that annihilated all our maxims upon that fubject, and confequently was calculated to bring this country to ruin. It became therefore highly neceflary, that fuch a principle fhould be difavowed, in order that foreign nations fhould know that Great Britain will not depart from the principles of juftice in her conquefts; that no barbarous - comments on the law of nations will make her forget her humanity, but, that her character fhall be pure and honourable. He denied the right of war, as it had been stated by the Gentleman who defended the conduct of thefe Commanders, and he thought the circumftance of their not having themfelves put their Proclamation in force, was fomething like a proof that they themselves did not think very highly of it. He had no defire for any reflection being thrown on these Gentlemen, nor was he at all furprifed at the defence of Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis, that had been made by the Hon. Gentleman who fpoke laft but one. All he wished was, that there fhould be a declaration of that House, that difavow♣ ed the principle of the Proclamation, and that taught all the world to know that in Great Britain private property is held facred either in peace or war. Without fuch a principle, he was confident we fhould foon lofe all our fuperiority over

other nations.

Sir William Scott objected to the production of the papers, as well as the o, inions of himself and his Majesty's law offi cers; because those opinions were merely hypothetical, and founded on ex parte evidence. He concurred with the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, that it would be more proper to dif cufs thefe opinions when the papers were laid upon the table. At prefent he confidered the queftion to be prematurely agitated; but when the papers were produced, he did not hesitate to pronounce, that all further proceedings in the bufinefs would be conducted with candour and with care. He fubfcribed to the declaration of the Hon. Gentleman that the character of the country is her great refource, but he reminded him alio, that the character of the eminent perfons in it forms a great part of it. Upon thefe reafons he could not join in the motion for the production of the papers.

Mr. Secretary Dundas doubted whether all the papers which had been alluded to were in exiftence.

Mr. Barham, in reply, protefted that the copy of a Memorial prefented to Sir Charles Grey in the West Indies, had been seen in fome office, though in what office he could not

Lay.

fay. It was a paper containing many material allegations. As to the other papers he had moved for, he ftated his authority from an aufwer of the Duke of Portland to a Memorial of the West India planters and merchants, which alleged, that no farther explanation could be given until the law officers had been confulted, and had made their report. This anfwer was delivered by his Grace to Lord Penrhyn, who prefented the Memorial as Chairman of the Meeting.

Adverting to what had been urged by different Gentlemen in the courfe of the debate, he first noticed, that a Learned and Hon. Member had accufed him of premature agitation. when the question was brought coolly and deliberately forward, and another Hon. Gentleman had interpreted his object to be an intention of cenfure, which he most tenaciously difclaimed. He thought no complaint could with propriety be made of preliminary accufation, when they were indeter minately arguing upon papers they did not poffefs, nor could fuch a complaint be made, while they adverted to papers. which they had not read. One opinion must be taken upon the view of the Proclamation, and another on the documents. They could not indeed pafs without the notice of the Houfe, if they were like the papers in his hands. He concluded by obferving, that he merely moved for the copies of the Memorials theiicives, and not for any further proceedings upon them.

Mr. Francis faid, "Before the Houfe comes to a decifion on a question fo important in itself, and fo particularly important as it is perfonal to men, to whom we owe not only juftice to their merits, but caution and delicacy in every thing that touches their reputation, I wish to flate my own embarraflment, and to request the Houfe to look forward and conLider the difficult fituation, in which they may find themselves, if that fhould happen, which is very likely to happen, in a fubfequent ftage of the prefent proceeding; that is, if the motion fhould be carried, and if the Right Hon. the Secretary of State fhould adhere to the declaration he has made this night. He has fairly told us that, in yielding to the prefent motion for papers, he does not hold himself engaged to ftir another ftep in the bufinefs; that the parties are not to expect him to concur in any propofition for an inquiry into the tranfactions to which thefe papers relate; that fuch inquiry might go to a length incompatible with the actual state of the feilion, and could not be carried on at all without the perfonal attendance of many officers, who were actually employed or appointed on foreign fervice of the utmost importance to the Public, from which they could not be fpired.

Now,

Now, Sir, if, when thefe papers are before us, thefe objections to any farther proceeding fhould be urged by that Right Hon. Gentleman, and urged with fuccefs, as I fufpect they will be, from his great weight and authority with the Houfe, let us confider in what fituation we fhall then leave the character and honour of Sir Charles Grey and Sir John Jervis. On that fubject, Gentlemen here fpeak with great mildnefs and delicacy; but what in fact will be the impreffion abroad, if a motion for papers, in which the conduct of thefe Gentlemen is fo materially concerned, fhould be agreed to? No man will deny that it is of itself an imputation; that it creates or fuppofes fome doubt at least, which, to men of their character, must be equivalent to an accufation, and that it is, or ought to be, a fubject of inquiry. But, when you have admitted the imputation, will you refufe the inquiry? Sir, for my own part, I do not think that fuflicient ground, or any ground, has been established for acceding to the motion;but if I thought otherwife, I never would agree to it without holding myfelf at the fame time bound, in juftice and honour to the parties, to give them every poffible means and opportunity to clear and vindicate their character from the effects of that imputation. It is not a light or indifferent matter for this Houfe to accede to such a motion. It is not a thing to be taken up or abandoned without folid reafons, and ferious confideration; and I own I should have thought that his Majefty's Secretary of State would have acted with more juftice, prudence, and confiftency, if he had given a negative to the motion, as I fhali do, rather than have confented to it, as he has done, with an exprefs caveat against any further proceeding. He confents to a leading ftep, but he will confent to no other. If the House should follow him in that conduct, the refult will be, that poffibly a moft unjust imputation may be admitted, while the means of refuting it are denied. I am, therefore, against the motion."

Mr. Grey explained. He complained of the hardship attending the difcution of a question of this nature fo late in the feffion, when officers are upon the point of failing, whofe oral teftimony is fo very requifite. The evidence of General Myers, he obferved, as one perfon in particular, was indifpenfible; and yet General Myers was about to quit the kingdom, nor would he ftop without an exprefs order from the Duke of York or General Dundas.

Referring to the General's letter, it ftated, that he would moft readily make his affidavit in the vindication of the Commanders conduct; but this, Mr. Grey contended, could never be fo efficient or fo full as a perfonal allegation and inter

rogatorics