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to deviate from the rules of Parliament if he advised their Lordships to be extremely cautious, and to recollect the danger of disgracing both Houses, the Royal Family, and the King upon the throne, if they took a single Hep, till their Lordships should have the measure before them which the other House might send up. Supposing that their Lordships should come to some proposition the next day on the subject he alluded to, and mould not have the good fortune to have the concurrence of the other House, what would then become of their Lordships proposition? they could not controul the other House upon the subject, for they held the public purse. He would have their Lordships, therefore, think a moment before they proceeded in this business. It was impossible that they should take any step, without running the danger of committing the House to what they might not afterwards be able to maintain; for they could not know what proposition might come up from the other House of Parliament; and thus their Lordships, by adopting any measure the next day, might be very much perplexed and entangled afterwards, when they might be called upon to assent to, or dissent from, any measure that came from the other House. When that measure, whatever it might he, ihould be fairly before their Lordships, he would deliver his opinion, without meaning offence to the Illustrious Personage in question, or indeed offence to any quarter; but as an honest man, openly and unreservedly, although he might differ from his nearest and dearest connexions, as he had more than once been, painfully to himself, obliged to do. His Grace repeated that he seared that the House might be brought into a state os embarrassment, if they adopted any thing upon this subject the next day; and therefore he hoped his Majesty's ministers would not think of pressing any one measure in this very critical and delicate business, before they knew what the other House would resolve upon. --•

Lord Crmnille said, if the Noble Duke had but waited tils the next day, he would have found that there was not the smallest occasion for his Grace to have felt that extraordinary degree of alarm that he had so-anxioufly stated. Certainly noNoble Lord could ynagine that it was his intention to propose any measure that could lead their Lordships into detail on the subject. They must undoubtedly wait till they saw what the measure was which ihe other House should legislatively ser.d Up swr their consideration^ before their Lordships proceeded to diiicufiitari and debate onfhe'Fubject. Ail he meant to propose the next d.iy, weald be what every Noble Lor;! who had read Iris Majesty's Message, would see was hidispensibiy necessary, viz. tampve an humble address to hit Majesty, expressing rr.eh3 thanka thanks for his most gracious communication, and assuring his Majesty of their Lordships uniform affection to his person and the interests of the Royal Family; and that at a sit time they' would cheerfully concur with the other House, in such measures for making a proper provision for his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, as under all the circumstances of the cafe should appear requisite. Such an address, his Lordship said, would not commit or pledge that House to any one proceeding, but would leave the whole subject open to full and free discussion. The whole subject must come before the House, and be considered again. If the Noble Duke attended to the Message from the Throne, he would see that they were not called upon to come to any proposition at present that might lead to what the Noble Duke apprehended. Perhaps he was not regular in stating at the present moment what he intended to move the next day.

The Duke of Grafton said, he was not quite satisfied; if anybody was out of order and irregular, he knew that he was that person—anxiety for the occasion .betrayed him into it. He did not mean to evade the question in any shape -, he thought it would be wrong for that House to take the (lightest notice of it, or take a single step in the business, for fear of going too far, until some measure had been adopted by the Commons; because, until that happened, there could be nothing on which any resolution could be grounded: And therefore, if the Noble Secretary of State persisted in his intention of moving either an address, or any thing else, he begged leave to warn his hands of it altogether. Whenever the matter should be brought forward, their Lordfliips ought to know what they might do, without being subject to the chance of its being afterwards set aside. It was with that view he rose to submit his ideas to the House. With regatd to the measure itself, when it came to be discussed, he repeated it, that he sliould give his assent or his dissent, without considering whether he should give offence to that House, to the nation, or elsewhere, for he was determined to do what appeared to him to be his duty.—Here the conversation ended.


The Earl of Lauderdah took the opportunity to state to the House, that so early in the session as the 26;h of February, hehad moved an address to his Majesty,..for papers to be laid on their table, relative to the "fees received in the offices of the Secretaries of State. They had not yet appeared; why, he could not conceive. He wilhed to know of the Noble Secretary of State, when they vtre likely to be produced; and


secondly, whether there was any difficulty arising from inaccuracy in the form in which his motion w;is worded: If so, he was ready to correct it, and render it practicable.

Lord Grenville said, he could not assign any reason for the delay, but that he would make inquiry.

The Earl of Lauderdale then observed, that the session now far advanced, and the Public ought to know in what forwardness our preparations were for a suture campaign, and what troops were intended to take the field. Ministers also stood pledged to make some communication relative to the Imperial loan, as soon as they could. The Noble Secretary of State would recollect, when the message relative to that loan came down, it was stated, that certain sums of money had been advanced to the Emperor. He suspected that this country had paid, or stood pledged to pay, a larger sum of money than was communicated to Parliament. As he thought it material for the House to know this, he should have a motion to make relative to the sum of money advanced at this period, by this country, to the Emperor.

Lord Grenville referred to the tenor of the message, to which the Noble Earl had alluded. In answer to the first question, relative to a suture campaign, all he could say in addition to that was, that he had no commands from his Majesty to make a further communication upon that subject, and therefore it was impossible for him to make any other answer. To the pther pan of the Noble Earl's request, he saw no pointed objection.

The Earl of Lauderdale then moved for an account of such further sums of money, as his Majesty has been induced to order to be issued to his Imperial Majesty, since the last return, specifying the dates, &c—- Ordered.


The Order of the Day, on the motion of the Duke of Norfolk, to inquire into the circumstances of the recal of Earl Fitzwilliam, being generally called for,

The Earl of Guildford begged leave to remind the Noble Duke, on whose notice their Lordships were that day summoned, of the extreme impropriety of bringing forward his question respecting the recal of the late Viceroy of the sister kingdom, during the absence os a Noble Duke, the cause of which absence they must all lament. He therefore submitted it to the House, whether it would not be more satisfactory to their Lordships, and to the Public at large, to defer the discussion of this important business, to some day when their Lordships might have the advantage of the attendance of that

Vol. III. CL Noble Noble Duke, who was deeply implicated in the business from his official situation.

The Duke of Norfolk said, he did not mean any disrespect to the Noble Duke, nor would he urge his question, if sufficient reasons for postponing it were assigned; but he did not think the cafe was quite made out. A Noble Earl, who had lately been recalled from an high and important station, had come down to that House, and charged Administration with having done what they did unjustifiably; implicating his character in charge in his absence •, and calling on them to name a day to inquire into all the circumstances of the transaction. Blame there certainly was somewhere, and that House had a right to have the true grounds of it ascertained, for their satisfaction and that of the Public. One minister was prevented from attending the House to-day, and it was supposed that the question referred to the department of that minister in particular; that seemed to be the reason why this business was wislied to be deferred. It did not appear to him to be by airy means a sufficient reason; but he would be guided by their Lordships, if they would be pleased to suggest their desire. As there were two parties concerned in this business, his Majesty's ministers and the Noble Earl, and there certainly was an obvious indelicacy in forcing either of them to fay a word on the subject, he would therefore wait for the opinion of other and less interested Lords. When he understood the wish os the House, he would act accordingly. He was either ready to proceed at that moment, or to wait a few days longer.

The Earl of Moira conceived the Noble Duke would find it absolutely impossible to bring forward his question, when he considered that the absent Secretary os State presided over the office with which the Viceroy os Ireland immediately and solely corresponded. If the newspapers correctly reflected what had passed in the House of Commons of Ireland, when a question for an inquiry on the fame subject had been lately agitated, an Hon. Gentleman, who had lately lest England, and who had much conversation of a confidential nature with his Majesty's ministers, had declared upon his honour that the Noble Earl hail not gone a step beyond his instructions. His Lordship mentioned the respect personally due from one Noble Lord to another; and said, that to proceed in the absence os the Noble Duke, would be a mark of disrespect to him, without being of any advantage to the House. The Noble Duke ought to have an opportunity of taking his stiare in the discussion, especially when the ulual practice, that each party involved in blame ascribable to one or other ffiould be present, was considered. 4


7he Earl of Gulldford was still of opinion that the discussion ought not to be gone into in the absence of the Noble Duke. He thought it would be with more satisfaction to themselves, to the people of this country, and to the people of Ireland, to proceed in the presence of the Noble Duke, and therefore he must persist in desiring to postpone the subject; he accordingly moved, that the Order of the Day be discharged.

The Duke of Norfolk said, he should move that their Lordships be summoned at a suture day, to take this business into consideration. He differed from those who saw so much necessity for the presence of the Noble Duke. He conceived the matter to rest entirely between the Noble Earl who had been recalled, and the Committee of the Privy Council at large, and not at all with any particular individual of the Cabinet.

The Order of the Day being discharged, Lord Grenville said, whenever the motion, of which the Noble Duke had given notice, should be brought forward, he should give it his decided negative; it was to him, therefore, matter of indifference, whether the business came forward on that or any other clay. He said this without intending to convey any idea, that he concurred in the propriety of some suggestions which he had heard that day.

The Earlof Lauderdale said, that no one lamented more than he did the indisposition of the Noble Duke (Portland), and wished to know what his indisposition was. He learned, he said, it was the gout; and if a flying gout, he observed, the motion may fly from day to day, and ever be kept off. In such circumstances, he said, summoning the House was all a farce.

It was agreed by their Lordships, that the subject should stand foi Friday se'nnight.—Adjourned.


Thursday, April 30.


Mr. T. Grenville said, that such a spirit had discovered itself i:i the House with respect to enforcing die attendance on Election Committees, that he'conceived that the standing orders would be fully sufficient for the purpose, and consequently that the regulations, which he had proposed by a new Bil', would no longer be necessary. He therefore moved to withdraw the Bill,— Granted.


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