nature, they will not feel at liberty to make any application for the 5,000l., so long as there is any doubt upon this subject. I have the honour to be, &c. (Signed) JOHN SINCLAIR, Secretary.

To the Secretary of the Committee of Council on Education.

L.

Committee of Council on Education, Council- Office, Whitehall, October 21, 1839. REV. SIR,-I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your letter, dated October 17, stating that the Committee of the National Society desire to draw the attention of the Lords of the Committee of Council to the terms of their report presented to the House of Commons, as compared with the terms of the Regulation A, which the Committee of Council have since transmitted to applicants for portions of the parliamentary grant.

I have to state, in answer to your question, that the words, "in order to secure a conformity to the regulations and discipline established in the several Schools with such as may from time to time be suggested by the Committee," have been entirely misunderstood by those who have expressed a jealousy of the inspection proposed.

In Regulation A is the regulation under which the inspectors will act. In the Report presented by the Lords of the Committee to Her Majesty in Council, and afterwards laid before the House of Commons, the general object of inspection was mentioned, in the belief that the conductors of schools subject to inspection would not contravene their own rules, nor reject improvements, of the utility of which they should themselves be satisfied.

I am therefore desired to assure you, that with respect to the applicants who accept portions of the parliamentary grant under Regulation A, the Committee of Council disclaim all right or intention to insist on the adoption of any regulations which may be suggested to their Lordships on the report of their inspectors.—I have the honour to be, &c.,

(Signed)

J. P. KAY.

To the Rev. John Sinclair, Secretary to the National Society.

LI.

National Society's Office, Sanctuary, Westminster, October 23, 1839. SIR,-I am directed to acknowledge your letter of the 21st instant, in which you state, for the information of the Committee of the National Society, in reply to the inquiry from this office dated the 16th instant, that "with respect to the applicants who accept portions of the parliamentary grant under regulation A, the Committee of Council disclaim all right or intention to insist on the adoption of any regulations which may be suggested to them on the report of their inspectors."

I am further instructed to state, that the Committee of the National Society, considering that their Lordships expressly disclaim all right of interference and control as the consequences of an inspection grounded upon governmentaid towards the erection of a school, and taking also into account the very limited number of schools to which this partial inspection extends, are unwilling to stand between the bounty of Parliament and the claims of applicants for a participation therein; and will leave the decision in each case to the judgment of the parties respectively interested.

But the Committee feel bound to state, that they can never directly sanction or approve any system of inspection which is not derived from, and connected with the authorities of the Church. Such a system they have already stated they are engaged in preparing ; and their conviction remains unshaken, that no inspection, not authorised by the heads of the Church, can be made acceptable to the clergy and contributors to National Schools, or prove satisfactory in its general results.

They still entertain the hope that a representation of the grounds upon which they feel themselves compelled to object to the kind of inspection proposed by the Committee of Council, may have the effect of inducing their Lordships to reconsider the proposition made to them on this point by the Committee of the National Society. They will therefore, in a subsequent letter, request their Lordships' attention to a statement of these grounds of objection; and that statement they will feel it their duty also to communicate to the several applicants for aid from the parliamentary grant.-I have the honour to be, &c.,

(Signed)

JOHN SINCLAIR, Secretary.

To the Secretary to the Committee of Council on Education.

LII.

National Society's Office, Sanctuary, Westminster, October 25, 1839.

SIR,-I had the honour to inform the Committee of Council on Education, in my letter of the 15th instant, that the Committee of the National Society were not only doubtful as to the nature of the inspection contemplated by their Lordships, whether it implied a claim to any exercise of authority, but also thought it liable to serious objections on other grounds. In my letter of the 23d, I stated that the Committee had resolved upon submitting those objections to their Lordships, in the earnest hope of prevailing on them to reconsider the plan proposed. It is for this purpose that I now respectfully solicit their attention to the following remarks:

Their Lordships declare that their inspector shall "not be authorised to examine into the religious instruction and general regulations of the school;" that they "intend to appoint an inspector solely for the purpose of visiting National Schools;" that they have "requested the Bishop of Chichester to name to them some person who shall be in his opinion duly qualified for this important task;" and that "any vacancy will be filled up in a similar spirit, and with a like recommendation."

of

To these arrangements the Committee of the National Society would allege the fundamental objection, that the inspection is not to proceed under the sanction of Church authority. For although it is proposed that one of the bishops shall recommend a person to the Committee of Council, to be by them nominated inspector, it is not by the bishop's authority that the inspection is to be carried on, but by the authority of the Committee of Council; and accordingly, in the certificate required to be signed by the managers schools, the visitor in question is expressly designated "their Lordships' inspector." But were the actual nomination vested in the bishop, the ecclesiastical sanction given to such nomination would extend only to the particular diocese of that bishop; and the inspection of National Schools in other dioceses could not be considered as emanating from the authorities of the Church. The Committee of the National Society are precluded by those principles which they are bound no less by duty than inclination to maintain, from sanctioning any plan of inspection for National Schools which is not derived from and connected with the national Church.

With respect to the object of such inspection, they desire to remark, that if secular instruction, to the exclusion of religious, be made the subject of investigation by a person acting under royal authority, and of official reports made by him to the legislature, the former will undoubtedly be encouraged, to the disparagement of the latter. The master will almost unavoidably direct his chief attention to that department in which his scholars, by a display of their proficiency, will bring him credit with the Government, and will neglect the other, which the Government passes over without notice. He will be more anxious to see his pupils exhibit their attainments in geography, arithmetic, or history, than to instil into their minds and impress upon their hearts that less showy, but more valuable knowledge, to which every other kind, desirable as it may be, ought to be secondary and subservient; and by which alone they can be trained to moral duty here, or prepared for happiness

hereafter. The same pernicious prejudice will be apt to arise in the minds of parents, and still more of children, who will naturally undervalue lessons to which no regard is paid on the day of examination.

The Committee would next advert to the narrow grounds on which this claim to inspection rests. It is not maintained that the public has any pretension whatever to superintend the discipline and management of schools founded and maintained by private bounty alone; but it is contended that the public, as a contributor, has a right to inquire into the expenditure of its own contributions. Those who urge this argument do not consider how very small a portion the public grant in the cases now under consideration bears to the whole outlay upon the schools. The public settles no endowment upon the master, it allows him neither dwelling-house nor garden, it provides no fund for the expenses of tuition, but only gives a small contribution to assist in the first erection of the buildings. In return, it makes some very equitable requirements as to the execution of the work, the application of the subscriptions, and the security of the tenure. This has been readily admitted; and this is all that the public, in its character of a contributor, seems entitled to exact. Its claims to inspection appear to be exhausted, when it has ascertained that its contribution has been fairly expended, that the tenure of the site is good, and the edifice suitable and substantial. The business of inspection in Church-schools ought to be left to the Church itself, which, by its establishment as a part of the constitution of the country, and by its exertions in the cause of education, is entitled to claim this confidence on the part of the Government. But for the Government to insist further, that, because it has contributed one-third or one-fourth towards the erection of the mere building, it shall be entitled to inspect, and perhaps eventually to control, the entire discipline and economy of the school, upon principles contrary to the wishes of the other subscribers, would be a pretension hardly to be justified. No doubt the other subscribers are at liberty to accept or reject the assistance of the public; but it would be taking an inequitable advantage of their necessities, and of the difficulties they experience in the first erection of a school, to exact so large a share of influence in return for so small a share of contribution.

Again, their Lordships' plan of inspection would retard rather than advance the progress of education, by discouraging, for the future, those who have hitherto been its most active and liberal promoters. Of the six thousand seven hundred National Schools throughout the kingdom, the far greater number have originated with the parochial clergy; who, either from their own resources, or by the exertion of their private or professional influence, have made nearly all the provision which now exists for the education of the poor in the principles of the Church. But no clergyman can be expected to evince the same zeal for the erection of schools, and to make the same sacrifices for their support, when he finds his operations exposed to an inspection which he disapproves; and if unhappily the parochial minister should at last be superseded by the inspector, the periodical visits of the one will be found a most inadequate substitute for the continual superintendence of the other.

The Committee may be allowed further to observe, that the partial inspection proposed by their Lordships cannot easily be reconciled with the more perfect system contemplated by the National Society. When the Society appoints inspectors to visit all its schools, those examined by the agents of Government will be liable to two inspections upon different principles; the one calculated to exalt the secular, the other the religious part of education; from which anomaly nothing can be anticipated but general discord and confusion among the managers and supporters, the teachers and the scholars.

When the Committee of the National Society affirm that their intended system of inspection is more complete in its authority, its application, and the subject-matter of the inquiry, than the plan proposed by the Committee of Council, a doubt may occur whether it is not liable to this objection, that it would give to a society aided by public money the power of reporting on the efficiency of its own arrangements. But this objection would imply misap

prehension of the relation subsisting between the society and the schools receiving aid on its recommendation. No public money has been granted to the National Society; nor does the Society require from the applicants a conformity to any arrangements of its own, other than those to which they are bound by their relation generally to the Church itself, and specifically to their diocesans. This is evident from the form of application for a Treasury grant. It is not, therefore, as to the efficiency of any arrangements made by the National Society, that the inspectors will have to report, but as to the efficiency of the arrangements made by the managers of schools; who, while they would gladly submit their schools to a rightly constituted examination, would not desire to have any voice in the selection or appointment of the inspectors.

The Committee of the National Society, in case the above arguments should unhappily not prevail with the Committee of Council, would, in conclusion, earnestly press upon their Lordships' consideration the great wrong that would be done to applicants on the present occasion, by the imposition of new conditions upon grants to schools; all of which have been undertaken, and some of them completed, in full confidence that the bounty of Parliament would be extended to them upon the accustomed terms. It may be added, that the Society itself, in its correspondence with the applicants, has not hesitated to act upon the same conviction.

It is with great regret that the Committee of the National Society have felt themselves compelled to differ from the Committee of Council on the important question of inspection; but they must be allowed to repeat that they can never sanction or approve any system of inspection which does not emanate from Church authority, and does not distinctly recognise the paramount importance of religious, as compared with secular instruction. To the maintenance of these principles they consider themselves bound by the very terms on which the Sovereign granted to the Society its Charter of Incorporation; "We are satisfied that the best interests of these realms can in no way be more effectually promoted than by the encouragement of moral and religious education, throughout all classes of our people." I have the honour to be, &c. (Signed) JOHN SINCLAIR, Secretary. The Secretary to the Committee of Council on Education.

LIII.

Committee of Council on Education, Council-Office, Whitehall, October 31, 1839. REV. SIR,—I am directed by the Lords of the Committee of Council on Education to acknowledge the receipt of your letter, dated October 19, respecting the conditions required by their Lordships in the appropriation of 50007. in aid of the Training School of the National Society, in conformity with their report to Her Majesty, on which the order in Council of the 3d of June was issued.

My Lords direct me to state that the sum of 10,000l. voted for the Model or Training Schools in 1835, being unappropriated by the Treasury at the period when the report which was laid on the table of the House of Commons was prepared, and no conditions of appropriation having been settled by the Treasury, their Lordships conceived it their duty to include this 10,0007. under the general condition of inspection required from all schools aided by public grants.

My Lords direct me to add, that when an establishment intended to train schoolmasters for the discharge of their important functions is undertaken upon a design so extensive as to require the large outlay contemplated by the National Society, and with the expectation of receiving for that purpose considerable aid from public funds in the first instance, while it may possibly require still further assistance for its extension hereafter, there appears to be nothing so peculiar in its domestic or collegiate character as to render it less desirable that Parliament should receive such annual reports respecting it, as

the inspectors appointed by Her Majesty in Council would be required to prepare regarding other establishments of a similar character, the expense of which is in part defrayed by the public.

My Lords cannot abandon the condition of inspection with respect to the appropriation of 5000l. to the Training School of the National Society. I have the honour to be, &c.

(Signed)

J. P. KAY.

LIV.

Committee of Council on Education, Council Office, Whitehall, Nov. 4, 1839. REV. SIR, I am directed by the Lords of the Committee of Council on Education to acknowledge the receipt of your letter, dated 25th October, in which the Committee of the National Society state the objections they entertain to the inspection of schools aided by public grants, which their Lordships contemplate.

My Lords had announced in their regulation A, that the inspectors will not interfere with the religious instruction, discipline, or management of the schools; and they had communicated to the National Society their intention "to appoint an inspector solely for the purpose of visiting National Schools" -that they "had requested the Bishop of Chichester to name to them some person who should be, in his opinion, duly qualified for this important task," and "that any vacancy will be filled up in a similar spirit, and with a like

recommendation."

My Lords were desirous, by these arrangements, to convey to the National Society the fullest assurance that the religious principles, which it is alike the duty of the Society and has throughout been the express desire of their Lordships, should be inculcated on the children of all who will accept the offered instruction, should be taught in complete integrity, under the guidance of the clergy of the Established Church; whilst the inspection of the secular instruction of the schools aided by public grants was conducted in such a way as to offer the surest guarantee to the Society, that in fulfilling the intentions of Parliament, their Lordships were desirous to promote the successful operation of the principles on which the National Schools are founded.

When the National Society states, that "it can never sanction nor approve any system of inspection which does not emanate from Church authority," and when it further intimates that the actual nomination of the inspector should be vested in "the bishop," and adds, "that even in that case the ecclesiastical sanction given to that nomination would only extend to the particular diocese of that bishop; and the inspection of National Schools in other dioceses could not be considered as emanating from the authorities of the Church," the Society clearly declares that it is not prepared to approve any inspection of National Schools by the Committee of Council, otherwise than by inspectors appointed by each bishop for his diocese.

My Lords request you to observe, that an inspection so appointed was not contemplated by Parliament when it voted the grant on the report presented by the order in Council; but rather an inspection conducted under the authority of responsible ministers of the Crown, in order to procure for both houses of Parliament reports of the system of instruction given in schools aided by public grants, whereby it might be enabled to determine how far it was expedient that such grants should be voted in subsequent years.

Their Lordships' proposal that the Bishop of Chichester should recommend a person for the appointment of inspector of National Schools, and their announcement that they were prepared to fill up any vacancy in a similar spirit, and with a like recommendation, were made with a view to conciliation, and the Committee regret they have not had that effect.

In proposing to leave the whole of the arrangements respecting religious instruction to the National School Society, their Lordships conceived that they were evincing their confidence both in the Society and in the clergy of the Church of England in connexion with them. They have therefore been greatly sur