1810.

Debates in the Lords upon the Cathelic

motion 109-against it 213-majority against the Catholic claims 104.

In the house of Lords, on the 6th of June, the Earl of Donoughmore said, he was fully aware of petition. the difficulties, that had arisen out of recent events; noughmore, but the petitioners were the best judges of their

Lord Do

He

own case, and with respect to this application had
decided for themselves. His Lordship had ex-
pressed a strong disapprobation of certain stric-
tures on Lord Grenville's letter, and particularly
as coming professedly from a quarter deeply in-
terested in the success of these petitions, and re-
commended to his Catholic countrymen a candid
appreciation of the motives of those public men,
who had never deserted their public duty.
then took a luminous view of the whole case, as it
bore upon the existing law and policy of the coun-
try. His Lordship then went over the different
measures, which had been adopted for the purpose
of relaxing the restrictions on the Catholics, and
contended, that the Catholics had never been de-
ficient in gratitude for those concessions, but had
been always ready to render complete justice to
themselves and to others. The refusal of the Ca-
tholics to disclaim the authority of the Pope in
spiritual matters, was, however, the master ob-
jection against those of the present day, which ap-
peared like Aaron's serpent, to have swallowed up
all the rest. No man was so ignorant as not to
know, that its professed unity in doctrine and in
discipline, under one and the same declared head
was the essential distinguishing characteristic of

the Catholic Church, and yet they were told, that the Irish Catholics were the most unreasonable of men, because they would not renounce, upon oath, this first tenet of their religion, and consent to recognize a new head of their church in the person of a Protestant King. The Irish Catholic, under the existing tests, solemnly abjured the authority of the Pope in all temporal matters, pledged himself to be a faithful subject of the King, and to defend the succession of the crown, and the arrangement of property as now established by law, and that he will not exercise any privilege, to which he is, or may become entitled, to disturb the Protestant religion or Protestant government. What possible ground of apprehension could there be, which was not effectually provided against by the terms of this oath. With respect to that illfated Veto, the introduction of which into the Catholic vocabulary he witnessed with sincere regret; he could only say for himself, that he wanted no additional security; but he was equally ready to acknowledge, that it was the bounden duty of the Catholic, whenever the happy moment of conciliation should arrive, to go the full length his religion would permit him, to quiet the scruples, however groundless and imaginary, of the Protestant legislature. The recent resolutions of the counties of Kildare and Tipperary, and of the general committee, afforded evidence most convincing, that such was the cordial feeling of the Catholic body, and which he was persuaded their prelacy would be ready to meet with corresponding feelings on their

1310.

part, and what was not less satisfactory, they did not appear to foresee any difficulty in effectuating those arrangements, which the present unfortunate situation of the holy see would certainly render most desireable, perhaps indispensible, in the view of some attached friends to the measure. Whenever that moment should arrive, he trusted it would be recollected, 1st. That they could not expect to dispatch the spiritual rights of the Sovereign Pontiff by the formality of a few negative words in a restrictive provision, without his own previously obtained consent. And 2dly, That till the Catholic religion should cease to exist, the doctrines and discipline of that church must continue to be united under one and the same head. He wished, however, to be understood, that he spoke from no authority but that of his own mind, and that he was not the Charge D'Affaires of any man or body of men, lay or ecclesiastical. He had thus endeavoured to state the grounds, on which he founded his argument for granting to the Catholics a full and complete participation in every right, privilege, and immunity of the British constitution; in doing which, like the quality of that endearing attribute of Omnipotent power, their merciful dispensations would be twice blessed; in him, that gives and him that receives, in the deliverance of enfranchised Catholic millions from unmerited insult and degradation, and in the increased and assured security of the Protestant state, presenting to every insolent menace of the implacable foe to the British name and greatness, a wall

of adamant in the unconquerable energies of an nited people. His Lordship concluded by movng to refer the petition of the general body of he Irish Catholics to a committee of the whole

house.

1810.

carty

motion.

The Earl of Clancarty vehemently opposed the Lord Clannotion. The Irish Catholic Church contended against the for papal supremacy to a greater degree than any other nation. He admitted, that it was vain and Impracticable to attempt the abolition of that religion in Ireland, and wished, that some arrangement could be adopted. His Lordship expressed himself friendly to a public provision for the Catholic clergy; but until some plan was formed and proposed, he should object to going into a committee.

skine for

a commit

Lord Erskine professed himself among the Lord Erwarmest adherents to Protestantism. It was not going into the effect of prejudice, that led him to regard the tee. papal superstition as having been the greatest drawback upon the benevolent effects of christianity on mankind, since our Saviour came into the world. But he believed, that the papal superstition and the Roman Catholic faith were not precisely the same thing. His Lordship read passages from a book, which justified him in voting for going into the committee. In that book the superior Catholic clergy had distinctly, and calling God to witness, declared their loyalty to the civil establishment, and the constitutional Sovereign of this kingdom. They had also disavowed, solemnly, all obedience to bulls and rescripts issued

18:0.

by the papal power, under confinement, and to any election of the successor of the Pontiff not regularly and canonically made. In the name of that God, whom they invoked, said his Lordship, what could be wanted farther? But he was confident, that his noble friend, absent through indisposition, (Lord Grenville) would have voted for going into a committee, since he had particular arrangements to propose, which in that committee could be best considered. His Lordship then paid high compliments to Lord Grenville's letter to Lord Fingal, and quoted several passages from Mr. Burke's letter to Sir II. Langrishe, in which that great man, who shrunk like the sensitive plant from any thing, that bordered in his mind, on useless or dangerous innovation, so far from looking on this subject in such a light, manifested his warmest friendship for it in the most interesting! terms. He stated the dreadful effect of so many millions of fellow-subjects in a state of degradation, fit only to become the instruments of a wise despot, or the agents of a terrible revolution.

He

The Lord Chaucellor never could consent to the demands of those petitions, or to hazard a material alteration, in what had been made by our ances tors a Protestant constitution and state. commented on the letter of Lord Grenville to Lord Fingal, which stated, "that much was to le done," and many complicated measures adopted in the way of concession, and wished to know what was meant by, "much to be done," in this important business. As, therefore he could not